2013 SL with degraded battery? First time Leaf buyer

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Hoshnasi

Active member
Joined
May 21, 2017
Messages
29
Location
Cerritos, California
Hi All,

I've been spending the last few months absorbing the information here which helped me set my sights on a 2013 SL.

I found one at a local dealer with that I think is a bad battery. The car was manufactured Feb 25th 13' The LeafSpy is noted below.

Dealer is offering the car for just under $8,000. I'm thinking of buying it, driving it until I cannot stand the range anymore than going to Nissan for the warranty swap, I checked with Nissan the warranty is good until July 2018. Does that make sense?
UPDATED IMG
6uabF0c.png



THANK YOU!
 
LeftieBiker said:
If the original owner didn't opt out of the Klee battery settlement, why not? How many bars are showing?

I called Nissan 1800-NO-GAS-EV, they confirmed the batteries are under warranty still. 12 bars are showing, the dealer or auction house did a reset.

Oh, I forgot, the dealer does NOT have the SIM card, but said they will get it.
 
Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

The Klee settlement shouldn't matter. It shouldn't have applied to any '13+ Leafs.

The Leaf Spy screen you posted is worthless.
Hoshnasi said:
12 bars are showing, the dealer or auction house did a reset.

Oh, I forgot, the dealer does NOT have the SIM card, but said they will get it.
If they reset it, it's likely no screen in Leaf Spy will be helpful in judging battery condition. Any idea why it was reset? Where did the vehicle reside before?

Was the original in-service date in July 2013?

As for SIM card, do you mean the SD card?
 
Updated my info, thanks for the tip. I'm in Southern California

cwerdna said:
What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

40 miles a work day FWY.

cwerdna said:
The Leaf Spy screen you posted is worthless.

Why is that? is not AHR and SOH the important numbers?

cwerdna said:
If they reset it, it's likely no screen in Leaf Spy will be helpful in judging battery condition. Any idea why it was reset? Where did the vehicle reside before?

Its been in California its entire life from what the CarFax details. Although, that isn't fool-proof. Not sure why the dealer said "they did a reset". Not sure he knew what that meant fully.

cwerdna said:
Was the original in-service date in July 2013?

I believe in-service is the date it hit the dealers? Then yes, I confirmed that with Nissan when I called.

cwerdna said:
As for SIM card, do you mean the SD card?

Yes, SD card, my bad.

Thanks again!
 
Hoshnasi said:
cwerdna said:
The Leaf Spy screen you posted is worthless.

Why is that? is not AHR and SOH the important numbers?
Your screen does not show AHr nor SOH. You need the screen that shows AHr, SOH, Hx and the cell voltages. But, it's likely useless in the event of a reset anyway.
Hoshnasi said:
Its been in California its entire life from what the CarFax details. Although, that isn't fool-proof. Not sure why the dealer said "they did a reset". Not sure he knew what that meant fully.
Saying California is worthless. Do you have something more specific?

For example, look at the temperature spreads in the Bay Area alone: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=464260#p464260. A car that resided in Livermore or Concord will have WAY more degradation than Half Moon Bay. On a day I cited, it was 61 F in HMB vs. 102 in Concord and Livermore. Google Maps says it's a 51.4 mile drive from Livermore to HMB.

One in Sacramento will likely be as bad as Concord/Livermore. Death Valley would probably be HORRIBLE.

A HMB car would probably be ever better than one that resided in the Seattle area.
cwerdna said:
Was the original in-service date in July 2013?
Hoshnasi said:
I believe in-service is the date it hit the dealers? Then yes, I confirmed that with Nissan when I called.
No. Original in-service date is the date it was first sold or leased to the first customer.

I don't know the climate of your city. If he Leaf was built 2/2013 (per the driver's side door sticker), then it almost certainly has a crappy battery. Depending on its current real condition and your climate, it may or may not reach 8 capacity bars before the 5 year/60K capacity warranty expires. If it was in a hot climate and yours is super hot, it will.
 
cwerdna said:
Your screen does not show AHr nor SOH. You need the screen that shows AHr, SOH, Hx and the cell voltages. But, it's likely useless in the event of a reset anyway.
AH! Got it. see below.

cwerdna said:
Saying California is worthless. Do you have something more specific?
Cerritos.

cwerdna said:
No. Original in-service date is the date it was first sold or leased to the first customer.
02/24/2013

6uabF0c.png

Thanks again!
 
Interesting. From AHr, SOH and Hx values, I would NOT expect 12 capacity bars to be showing. You reading the right bars? http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/File:Scott_3_bars_s.jpg is an example of a 3 bar loser. You need to count all of the thinnest ones all the way on the right, including the red ones.
 
cwerdna said:
Interesting. From AHr, SOH and Hx values, I would NOT expect 12 capacity bars to be showing. You reading the right bars? http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/File:Scott_3_bars_s.jpg is an example of a 3 bar loser. You need to count all of the thinnest ones all the way on the right, including the red ones.
Didn't realize the red ones!

It sounds like the battery warranty is good through July 2018 as I was told when I called Nissan. Think I can drop the fourth bar by then?
 
Hoshnasi said:
It sounds like the battery warranty is good through July 2018 as I was told when I called Nissan. Think I can drop the fourth bar by then?
Off the top of my head, I'm unclear. You can skim threads like http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19967 for an idea of when people lost their 4th bar. If you sent it to Phoenix now to bake for this entire summer, it should lose it by Sept or Oct, if not earlier.

Example is this Phoencian w/better batteries: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995. (It appears 4/2013 built and later batteries on '13 Leafs degrade less than all the others that came before.)

My 5/13 built used '13 Leaf that resided in a warmer part of the SF Bay Area (but not blazing hot) and now is in a hotter part of the Bay Area still has all 12 bars but it getting close to losing 1. I bought it used in July 2015. Original in-service date was near end of June 2013. There's NO way in my climate that I will be at 8 CBs before capacity warranty expiration.
 
cwerdna said:
Hoshnasi said:
It sounds like the battery warranty is good through July 2018 as I was told when I called Nissan. Think I can drop the fourth bar by then?
Off the top of my head, I'm unclear. You can skim threads like http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19967 for an idea of when people lost their 4th bar. If you sent it to Phoenix now to bake for this entire summer, it should lose it by Sept or Oct, if not earlier.

Example is this Phoencian w/better batteries: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995. (It appears 4/2013 built and later batteries on '13 Leafs degrade less than all the others that came before.)

My 5/13 built used '13 Leaf that resided in a warmer part of the SF Bay Area (but not blazing hot) and now is in a hotter part of the Bay Area still has all 12 bars but it getting close to losing 1. I bought it used in July 2015. Original in-service date was near end of June 2013. There's NO way in my climate that I will be at 8 CBs before capacity warranty expiration.

I appreciate you walking me through this. I think I'm going to take a shot with the car.

Also, the dealer claimed they can get the SD card through Nissan. I am sure they probably can, but is he blowing smoke and they'll try to lay that cost on me?
 
They can get the card, but it's always best to get promises like that in writing. Figure roughly $300 (mostly for programming) if you don't and they decide not to bother.
 
Hoshnasi said:
I appreciate you walking me through this. I think I'm going to take a shot with the car.

Also, the dealer claimed they can get the SD card through Nissan. I am sure they probably can, but is he blowing smoke and they'll try to lay that cost on me?
No prob.

https://www.nissanusa.com/connect/features-app/navigation-system has a link to where to get an SD card. The cards are copy protected. They use the Secure part of Secure Digital.

One cautionary tale that my used car dealer told me: around the time I got my Leaf, he mentioned he'd won a Leaf @ auction w/o the SD card. He figured no prob, he can order one and it'll have the most current maps and he told his customer it'd be current. When he got the card, it had old maps, as old as what the car came with originally! He was pretty pissed, esp. given what he told the customer. We both felt it was pretty stupid that they'd even sell at full prices maps that are the most current version they produce.

Not sure if he got it resolved and was able get current maps w/o paying more.
 
Unless you live in Phoenix, or somewhere comparable, the odds of dropping down to 8 bars are not in your favor. It is possible, but I would not count on it. Even keeping the battery at 100% whenever it is not being driven, may not get it to drop in time. This is the most recent LeafSpy reading for my car, built in January 2013, and showing 9 bars. I should drop one more bar this summer.
May 15, 2017 - AHr=40.96, SOH=62%, Hx=55.96%, odo=25,169 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1989

I would also suggest that if you do decided to buy, do not take possession of the car until it is fully functional. Getting the missing SD card replaced can be an expensive hassle. Personally, I would risk losing the car to another buyer before driving off the lot without the SD card. Also, none of the NAV functions are available with the SD card missing.

Also, try to get two key fobs as part of the sale. Many Leafs that are not being sold new only come with one key fob. Most dealers charge around $300 for an additional or a replacement fob. The car has to be programmed to recognize the fobs. You can't just go buy one and add it yourself.
 
baustin said:
Unless you live in Phoenix, or somewhere comparable, the odds of dropping down to 8 bars are not in your favor. It is possible, but I would not count on it. Even keeping the battery at 100% whenever it is not being driven, may not get it to drop in time. This is the most recent LeafSpy reading for my car, built in January 2013, and showing 9 bars. I should drop one more bar this summer.
May 15, 2017 - AHr=40.96, SOH=62%, Hx=55.96%, odo=25,169 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1989

I would also suggest that if you do decided to buy, do not take possession of the car until it is fully functional. Getting the missing SD card replaced can be an expensive hassle. Personally, I would risk losing the car to another buyer before driving off the lot without the SD card. Also, none of the NAV functions are available with the SD card missing.

Also, try to get two key fobs as part of the sale. Many Leafs that are not being sold new only come with one key fob. Most dealers charge around $300 for an additional or a replacement fob. The car has to be programmed to recognize the fobs. You can't just go buy one and add it yourself.

Interesting. I was under the assumption that pre April 13' leafs had battery issues and are prone to making it to eight bars within the warranty period.

Agreed on the Sd card. And some good news, there is a second key fob.

Thanks!
 
Interesting. I was under the assumption that pre April 13' leafs had battery issues and are prone to making it to eight bars within the warranty period.

Oh, they do, and they do, but not necessarily where the climate is cool. If you have about 15 months to drop one bar, you can do it with plenty of hot weather. If the weather isn't hot, it's a gamble. Part of the problem is that Nissan programmed the BMS to only very reluctantly drop that ninth bar, and this delay sometimes takes the car outside the warranty period.
 
So I went back for a test drive. Maybe put 1 mile on it and the total miles dropped by 6. Also. I did another leaf spy

56rsktu.png


Help me out is all that red bad?

Edit to add. Cost is $9500 out the door tax, title & license in ca.

LVuM8dW.jpg
 
Yeah, don’t worry about blue vs. red in the cell voltages page. The dash pic shows it's down 2 capacity bars, for 10 remaining.

The $9500 is WITH tax, title and license or WITHOUT?

Does this SL have the premium package or not? Premium would (be worth something and) add the 4 camera Around View Monitor + Bose stereo. There’d be a camera button on the nav system and a Bose module in the trunk.

And, to confirm it’s an SL, it should have black leather interior and a CHAdeMO inlet (2 actual charging ports). http://sfbayleafs.org/commentary/2013/09/2013-vs-2011-nissan-leaf-whats-new-whats-gone-whats-changed/ should help. The car has CHAdeMO. AVM and Bose.
 
cwerdna said:
Yeah, don’t worry about blue vs. red in the cell voltages page. The dash pic shows it's down 2 capacity bars, for 10 remaining.
The $9500 is WITH tax, title and license or WITHOUT?
With tax and license. That is the literal "out the door" price.

cwerdna said:
Does this SL have the premium package or not? Premium would (be worth something and) add the 4 camera Around View Monitor + Bose stereo. There’d be a camera button on the nav system and a Bose module in the trunk.
I don't know if it its premium. Not sure how long the ad will stay up as I'm reserved that car. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/685006260/overview/

cwerdna said:
And, to confirm it’s an SL, it should have black leather interior and a CHAdeMO inlet (2 actual charging ports). http://sfbayleafs.org/commentary/2013/09/2013-vs-2011-nissan-leaf-whats-new-whats-gone-whats-changed/ should help. The car has CHAdeMO. AVM and Bose.
Yes, I believe it is SL and does indeed have the ports with cables in the motor area.
 
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