BuckMkII
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Hx dropping constantly!

Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:31 pm

I purchased a 2013 SV (July build) on 5/31. Test drive on 5/24 (28 miles) SOH was 86%, Hx 83.93.

Day of purchase, SOH was 85% and Hx 83.77 (didn't drive again before purchase or attach LeafSpy until leaving; by odo no one drove it in the interim). Almost every drive the Hx ticks down about another tenth. On only two logged drives, the Hx has gone up by a couple hundredths. (Did not have LeafSpy open on phone a couple of times, so a few drives aren't logged.) These are averaging about 5 miles per logged drive.

I've now driven a total of 160 ODO miles and Hx has gone down to 82.54. At this rate, my Hx will be 40 in a year!!! :evil:

What is going on?
Last edited by BuckMkII on Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17 : AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Hx dropping constantly!

Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:42 pm

IF the SOH isn't dropping it may be temporary. If BOTH are dropping, the BMS may have been reset. Did the car reside in a hot climate? Because normally a later build 2013 doesn't lose capacity that fast...
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

BuckMkII
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Hx dropping constantly!

Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:44 pm

The SOH went down a point between the day of the test drive and the day I bought it (last Wednesday). It has stayed at 85% since then.

Based on my test drive data, I had calculated the battery capacity as 20.4 kWh, which seemed consistent with an 86% SOH:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24002&p=495344#p495344
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17 : AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Hx dropping constantly!

Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:31 pm

Hx is more a 'snapshot' of the pack's resistance at the moment the reading is taken. If the SOH doesn't drop, the Hx should start to trend upwards again. You can try charging to 100%, waiting for the car to stop charging completely, then drive a few miles. The Hx should go up after that.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6704
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Hx dropping constantly!

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:56 pm

BuckMkII wrote:The SOH went down a point between the day of the test drive and the day I bought it (last Wednesday). It has stayed at 85% since then.

Based on my test drive data, I had calculated the battery capacity as 20.4 kWh, which seemed consistent with an 86% SOH:
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 44#p495344

The SOH and Hx figures move around some.

They may improve if you get the battery down to fairly low % SoC (say below 25% on the dash display) and charge back up to 100%, letting it stop by itself.

I wouldn't bother with any kWh calculations. Leaf Spy seems to default to 1 gid = 77.5 Wh. See my comments at http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=481367#p481367 and viewtopic.php?p=476092#p476092.

If you bought the Fremont, CA car, that isn't a cooler part of the Bay Area, but also isn't really crazy hot either. Unfortunately, the car may have sat in the sun in hot parts of Bay Area. Examples: viewtopic.php?p=464260#p464260.

Fremont to these cities are only these distances:
Concord: 41 miles
Walnut Creek: 35 miles
Livermore: 19 miles
Dublin: 19 miles

The first 3 cities I listed are pretty hot in the summer. It looks like per http://www.intellicast.com/local/histor ... n=USCA0314 and http://www.intellicast.com/local/histor ... n=USCA1209, Dublin weather is similar to Walnut Creek.

I don't have a spreadsheet of my records but now that I own this used Leaf w/no chance of being down 4 bars before the 5 year/60K capacity runs out (I still have all 12), I try to keep my battery cooler. Today I'm at with a 5/2013 built '13 SV:
AHr: 56.73
SOH: 86%
Hx: 85.03%

On 5/31/17, I was at:
AHr: 57.05
SOH: 87%
Hx: 85.61%

But on 5/21/17, I was at:
AHr: 56.20
SOH: 85%
Hx: 83.75%

And this is about the highest I've seen it in recent history (that I can recall), from 5/13/17:
AHr: 57.93
SOH: 88%
Hx: 87.60%

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

BuckMkII
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Hx dropping constantly!

Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:41 am

cwerdna wrote:The SOH and Hx figures move around some.

This morning SOH had ticked down to 84%, but after driving to work, it's back up to 85% and Hx is up a couple of tenths to 82.58.

They may improve if you get the battery down to fairly low % SoC (say below 25% on the dash display) and charge back up to 100%, letting it stop by itself.

I wanted to do that today but we "had to" charge at home (for the first time) last night (L1 from 37% to 80%). Battery temp was a bit higher than I would like (mid-70s IIRC; yesterday was "hot" by Seattle standards and I was too dumb to game the charging timer to delay the start of charging until after midnight and just have it run for a few hours as a range cushion, which I thought of only after I'd driven 3/4 of the way to work...I need to figure out how to do that).

Actually, there's no doubt that we could have made our triangle route to drop the kid at school and get to work right around LBW, but I didn't want to suffer the anxiety that one of the free chargers at work wouldn't be open. I put it on the L2 at work a few minutes ago to run it up to 100%.

I wouldn't bother with any kWh calculations. Leaf Spy seems to default to 1 gid = 77.5 Wh. See my comments at http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=481367#p481367 and viewtopic.php?p=476092#p476092.

If you bought the Fremont, CA car, that isn't a cooler part of the Bay Area, but also isn't really crazy hot either. Unfortunately, the car may have sat in the sun in hot parts of Bay Area. Examples: viewtopic.php?p=464260#p464260.


Yes, I've been to Livermore once when it was hot AF. I lived in SF for almost three years and took a windsurfing class at Lake Del Valle once. The car seems to have often been charged twice a day (2400 charges in < 4 years, average 16 miles per charge) so bopping back and forth from the East Bay to Livermore and compulsively charging at both ends is a likely scenario.

So, you're saying you think LEafSpy calculations based on a test drive are worthless? Had I gone in with that belief, I'd have assumed both non-QC cars had had BMS resets and got the "less healthy" Sunnyvale car! :(
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17 : AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250

BuckMkII
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Hx dropping constantly!

Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:07 pm

OK, this morning did the L2 charge at work until it shut itself off (battery temp finished at an average just under 73°). My driving plans through Friday evening should make a good dent in this charge (8 miles today, 23 miles tomorrow, 33 miles on Friday). If that doesn't at least get me down to LBW, either I'll drive laps around the neighborhood Friday night with aggressive hill-climbing, or run it low on Saturday with errands, then do an L1 at home to 80% and see what the software thinks after that.

Unfortunately, after a nice day today, we're going to have good battery-charging weather (highs in the low to mid 60s and waves of rain) throughout the remainder of the one-week forecast!
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17 : AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6704
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Hx dropping constantly!

Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:51 pm

BuckMkII wrote:Yes, I've been to Livermore once when it was hot AF. I lived in SF for almost three years and took a windsurfing class at Lake Del Valle once. The car seems to have often been charged twice a day (2400 charges in < 4 years, average 16 miles per charge) so bopping back and forth from the East Bay to Livermore and compulsively charging at both ends is a likely scenario.

I wouldn't put too much stake in the L1/L2 count. It has some quirks that could make it MUCH higher than the actual charge count. See viewtopic.php?p=452126#p452126. Mine's at 2966. It looks like it was around 1640 at the time I looked at it/bought it on July 16, 2015, for a delta of 1326.

I definitely do NOT charge it twice/day. On weekdays, it's usually just charged once at work (almost always with a midnight to midnight 80% timer Mon thru Thurs) and that's it. On some days, I remotely trigger it to go to 100% about 1-2 hours before I leave. On virtually all weekdays, I don't charge at home. There's almost no reason for me to given that PG&E is expensive and charging at work is free.

My previous Leaf that I leased for 2 years and turned in on time ended with 29 QCs and 1303 L1/L2s, give or take a few of the latter. I definitely didn't charge it an average of 1.78 times/day but I did use the timers, probably the 80% midnight to midnight many times.

My commute with my current and former leased Leaf was about 24 to 30 miles/day.

For all we know, Nissan may have intended it to count something else like contactor cycles.
Last edited by cwerdna on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Hx dropping constantly!

Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:09 pm

BuckMkII wrote:OK, this morning did the L2 charge at work until it shut itself off (battery temp finished at an average just under 73°). My driving plans through Friday evening should make a good dent in this charge (8 miles today, 23 miles tomorrow, 33 miles on Friday). If that doesn't at least get me down to LBW, either I'll drive laps around the neighborhood Friday night with aggressive hill-climbing, or run it low on Saturday with errands, then do an L1 at home to 80% and see what the software thinks after that.

Unfortunately, after a nice day today, we're going to have good battery-charging weather (highs in the low to mid 60s and waves of rain) throughout the remainder of the one-week forecast!


The best time to check it is probably right after a 100% charge. After an 80% charge is likely NOT the best time. The charge lights behave as if there is equalization after an 80% charge, but that may not be what actually happens.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

BuckMkII
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Hx dropping constantly!

Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:49 am

cwerdna wrote:I wouldn't put too much stake in the L1/L2 count. It has some quirks that could make it MUCH higher than the actual charge count. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 26#p452126.

Jeez, another quirk?!? Okaaaay. ;)

On weekdays, it's usually just charged once at work (almost always with a midnight to midnight 80% timer Mon thru Thurs) and that's it. On some days, I remotely trigger it to go to 100% about 1-2 hours before I leave. On virtually all weekdays, I don't

Why a midnight-to-midnight timer? I've given only the briefest glance at the timer issue. I'd have guessed that would make it wait until x hours before midnight to start charging (where x is the calculated time to charge), but unless you work nights that must be wrong!
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17 : AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250

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