BuckMkII
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Questions about low-battery range, turtle behavior and LeafSpy readings

Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:18 am

I'm down to an estimated 1.5 miles to LBW, 11.2 miles to VLBW at 5.1 miles/kWh, which is what I've been averaging, (29.9% SOC, 18.9% GIDs, 53 GIDs) and want to run it pretty low today to determine my overall range, but don't want to be one block from home and unable to make it up the alley!

First question: LS says 15.0 miles to 5%. Five percent what? SOC? GIDs? Something else?

Is 5% the start of Turtle mode? If not, why "5%" as a prediction setting?

If I want to run it very low, I can do laps in my neighborhood, which has a significant grade down (like, 7 or 8%) to the south of my house and a gentle grade (1 or 2%) up to the north, so if I'm getting very low, I can stay on the north side and have a slight downhill all the way home, except a hundred yards up the alley to my house that climbs about 5 feet. If it turtles, is it a safe bet to go half a mile or so down hill then up the alley?
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17 : AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250

hyperionmark
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2017
Location: Nebraska

Re: Questions about low-battery range, turtle behavior and LeafSpy readings

Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:18 pm

As a side note, try not to keep it very long at a very low battery level. This isn't great on the battery.

BuckMkII
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Questions about low-battery range, turtle behavior and LeafSpy readings

Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:37 pm

If the battery temp is not up in the yellow range, I'll put it on to charge immediately after I get home. If it's warm, I'll let it sit in the shade for a few hours first, or set the charging timer to start around 10 PM.
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17 : AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250

91040
Posts: 938
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:36 pm
Delivery Date: 06 May 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Questions about low-battery range, turtle behavior and LeafSpy readings

Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:39 pm

My experience is with a 2011 Leaf.
There is approximately 3kWhs of useable energy at LBW. If you have the LeafSpy set for 5m/kWh, the 15 mile projection to the point of shutdown makes sense. My car shuts down at ~6 Gids / 0.5kWh.

Remaining range after turtle depends on how well balanced the individual cells are. One outlying low cell will cause an earlier shutdown. Be very gentle in applying power after turtle if you need to go a distance.

BuckMkII wrote:I'm down to an estimated 1.5 miles to LBW, 11.2 miles to VLBW at 5.1 miles/kWh, which is what I've been averaging, (29.9% SOC, 18.9% GIDs, 53 GIDs) and want to run it pretty low today to determine my overall range, but don't want to be one block from home and unable to make it up the alley!

First question: LS says 15.0 miles to 5%. Five percent what? SOC? GIDs? Something else?

Is 5% the start of Turtle mode? If not, why "5%" as a prediction setting?

If I want to run it very low, I can do laps in my neighborhood, which has a significant grade down (like, 7 or 8%) to the south of my house and a gentle grade (1 or 2%) up to the north, so if I'm getting very low, I can stay on the north side and have a slight downhill all the way home, except a hundred yards up the alley to my house that climbs about 5 feet. If it turtles, is it a safe bet to go half a mile or so down hill then up the alley?
Last edited by 91040 on Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
1st Capacity Bar loss 30k mi 16.25mo 2nd- 49k mi 25.5mo 51.5Ah
3rd- 73k mi 36.5mo 46.9Ah 71% SOH 50.9Hx 4th- 86.5k mi 43mo 42.61Ah 64% SOH 43.79Hx
5th- 101k mi 50.5mo 38.38Ah 58% SOH 37.02Hx Replaced Battery 9/28/15 104.2k mi 36.13Ah

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6442
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Questions about low-battery range, turtle behavior and LeafSpy readings

Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:54 pm

BuckMkII wrote:If the battery temp is not up in the yellow range, I'll put it on to charge immediately after I get home. If it's warm, I'll let it sit in the shade for a few hours first, or set the charging timer to start around 10 PM.


If I get below 20% in hot weather, I'll charge it just above 20% (on L-1) and then unplug it and let it cool before finishing the charge in the morning.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

BuckMkII
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Questions about low-battery range, turtle behavior and LeafSpy readings

Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:38 pm

Although it was sunnier then I expected today, it was still good battery charging weather. After my last 10 mile drive this evening, the mean battery temp sensor reading was 65°. I felt it was safe to start an L1 charge at that point. :lol:

I only got down to 19 GIDs remaining. LS said I could drive another 2 miles to 5% (of which I still don't know the significance), but I feared my spousal critter would become impatient if I spent another 10 minutes orbiting the neighborhood before lighting the grill, so I cut off the process at that point.
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17 : AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250

User avatar
Stanton
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Questions about low-battery range, turtle behavior and LeafSpy readings

Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:54 am

BuckMkII wrote:Although it was sunnier then I expected today, it was still good battery charging weather. After my last 10 mile drive this evening, the mean battery temp sensor reading was 65°. I felt it was safe to start an L1 charge at that point. :lol:


My battery pack hasn't seen 65° for at least 2 months! I'm lucky if I can plug it in @85° these days.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1304
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Questions about low-battery range, turtle behavior and LeafSpy readings

Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:52 am

You're in Seattle, you have no need to worry about battery temperature. It is best to start charging (either L1 or L2) soon after deep discharge regardless of temperature. I hit 11 temperature bars yesterday (probably the first time ever for the 2015) during the second QC of the day. The QC stopped at less than 80% SOC and driving power was limited to about 45 kW (full regeneration was available). I drove a few miles and then parked while eating dinner. The battery cooled enough to allow full power acceleration during the rest of my errands.

The lithium battery controller (LBC) opens the main contactor when the lowest cell pair voltage reaches the minimum level. The LBC requests turtle mode when it determines that there is very little energy available to reduce maximum power and reduce the risk of hitting the shutdown threshold. Since the LBC is looking at the lowest cell pair voltage, cell balance (or unbalance) can greatly affect the point that turtle mode happens and especially the distance between turtle and shutdown. My 2011 might go 1/4 mile in turtle mode with VERY gentle driving, but the 2015 will normally go a little further. My battery pack is normally very well balanced because I always charge with L2 at home to 100% and frequently discharge to LBW or VLBW (low battery or very low battery warning). It was down to 7 Gids by the time I reached the QC station yesterday and the LBC had not engaged turtle mode. Turtle mode normally happens at 5 Gids (but could happen at 6) and shutdown happens at 4 Gids with my well-balanced battery in the 2015 when using climate control while parked to in the driveway. I know these thresholds because I have been discharging the battery to shutdown once a month and recording L2 charging power from the wall to track battery capacity loss.

Edited to note turtle mode at 5 Gids instead of 6 after checking my records.
Last edited by GerryAZ on Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

BuckMkII
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Questions about low-battery range, turtle behavior and LeafSpy readings

Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:36 am

I was mostly being tongue-in-cheek about the battery temp, although I did see yellow bars on the graph in LS one day last week. I didn't take them too seriously.

Good idea using the AC to run the pack down in the safety of your driveway! I wonder how many years it would have taken me to come up with that idea on my own?
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17 : AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250

Philipr144
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:19 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jul 2017
Location: Bakersfield Ca

Re: Questions about low-battery range, turtle behavior and LeafSpy readings

Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:45 am

Stanton wrote:
BuckMkII wrote:Although it was sunnier then I expected today, it was still good battery charging weather. After my last 10 mile drive this evening, the mean battery temp sensor reading was 65°. I felt it was safe to start an L1 charge at that point. :lol:


My battery pack hasn't seen 65° for at least 2 months! I'm lucky if I can plug it in @85° these days.



Mine hit 113 degrees the other day.
2011 Leaf 76% SOH 212Gids 50ah 66.3k miles 10 bar

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