SageBrush
Posts: 1210
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Less than one day until Carvana brings a Leaf

Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:16 am

@ByeFO,

Your screenshots are not an apples to apples comparison in terms of range because the threshold till "empty" has changed.
P.s., I second Gerry's suggestion to test your tyres with a decent digital pressure gauge.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

ByeFO
Gold Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:38 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jun 2017
Leaf Number: 407834
Location: Philadelphia area

Re: Less than one day until Carvana brings a Leaf

Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:58 am

SageBrush wrote:@ByeFO,

... threshold till "empty" has changed.
Can you explain threshold till empty? Is this the DTE on the third leaf spy screen? Is there a way to keep the threshold till empty from changing?
2013 (4/2013) Pearl White SV LED/QC package

BuckMkII
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Less than one day until Carvana brings a Leaf

Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:17 am

Did you see this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24102
More winter range info.
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
on 9/29/17: AHr = 55.3; SOH = 84%; Hx = 81.6; ODO = 41,492
bar 12 lost 8/21/17

SageBrush
Posts: 1210
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Less than one day until Carvana brings a Leaf

Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:03 am

ByeFO wrote:
SageBrush wrote:@ByeFO,

... threshold till "empty" has changed.
Can you explain threshold till empty? Is this the DTE on the third leaf spy screen? Is there a way to keep the threshold till empty from changing?

DTE means distance till empty.

If you tap on the information square it will cycle through different "empty" thresholds.

Others will be able to answer your question with confidence; I vaguely remember that "empty" can be:
1. 5% reserve remaining
2. the low battery charge warning set by Nissan
3. Perhaps others ?
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

ByeFO
Gold Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:38 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jun 2017
Leaf Number: 407834
Location: Philadelphia area

Re: Less than one day until Carvana brings a Leaf

Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:13 am

GerryAZ wrote:... Tell me the type of outlet you have if you want more recommendations for charging at work.
I will see if I can get the electrician to come out (never an easy task for small jobs) and tell me what they can install at work. The service panel at work is 2 steps from the back door. I would just have to figure out a way to run an EVSE upgrade cord out the door but be able to block some of the cracks to keep cold/hot air and mice from coming in the back door.
2013 (4/2013) Pearl White SV LED/QC package

BuckMkII
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Less than one day until Carvana brings a Leaf

Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:46 am

SageBrush wrote:3. Perhaps others ?

The third is Very Low Battery Warning, between LBW and 5%. IIRC, VLBW is closer to 5% than to LBW by a fair bit.

I guess 5% is assumed to be close to when Turtle Mode cuts in? I understand Turtle is determined simply by any one battery cell reaching a critically low voltage (2.8 V?) so that would be somewhat independent of the total amount of capacity left in the pack: one crappy cell could hamstring you early.
Last edited by BuckMkII on Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
on 9/29/17: AHr = 55.3; SOH = 84%; Hx = 81.6; ODO = 41,492
bar 12 lost 8/21/17

SageBrush
Posts: 1210
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Less than one day until Carvana brings a Leaf

Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:19 am

ByeFO wrote:
GerryAZ wrote:... Tell me the type of outlet you have if you want more recommendations for charging at work.
I will see if I can get the electrician to come out (never an easy task for small jobs) and tell me what they can install at work. The service panel at work is 2 steps from the back door. I would just have to figure out a way to run an EVSE upgrade cord out the door but be able to block some of the cracks to keep cold/hot air and mice from coming in the back door.
Perhaps they can install an outdoor outlet for you.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

GlennD
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1163
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jul 2013
Leaf Number: 410357
Location: Anaheim

Re: Less than one day until Carvana brings a Leaf

Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:05 pm

ByeFO wrote:
GerryAZ wrote:... Tell me the type of outlet you have if you want more recommendations for charging at work.
I will see if I can get the electrician to come out (never an easy task for small jobs) and tell me what they can install at work. The service panel at work is 2 steps from the back door. I would just have to figure out a way to run an EVSE upgrade cord out the door but be able to block some of the cracks to keep cold/hot air and mice from coming in the back door.


When I was working I had a similar situation. I mounted the EVSE an the inside wall next to the door. City buildings do not get inspected so I did all of the electrical work. I just used a section of 2X2 to protect the cord. I parked outside next to the door and a 24 foot cable worked out fine. Except in winter the door was open since the yard was protected.

I used a non locking 240V 20A set since it was cheap. If I was to do it again I would use a L6 locking set. For me it was important to have a means of disconnecting so I could take it with me when I retired. Perminitly wired meant that it was part of the building and I would have to have left it. As it was, the Wireless Officer was surprised it was gone but then so was I.
2012 Cayenne Red SL traded for:
2013 Pearl White SL Premium
Traded for a Cirrus White 2014 Mercedes B (totaled)
2016 Urano Gray eGolf SEL w/ drive assist
Loved the VW but it sat too low for my old body
Back to a Cirrus White 2017 B250E

ByeFO
Gold Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:38 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jun 2017
Leaf Number: 407834
Location: Philadelphia area

Re: Less than one day until Carvana brings a Leaf

Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:15 am

BuckMkII wrote: Then start driving 10-20 miles and try NOT to use regeneration: Turn Eco mode off, drive in D not B mode, and avoid braking, so the energy all comes from the battery *once* and isn't recycled into the battery then taken out again. Don't freak out about a little regen, just try not to do a lot of it. Driving on a freeway in cruise control at a little less than the speed of other traffic (so you don't have to brake or lift off the "gas" pedal) would be ideal. Then stop and record the SOC, the miles and the mi/kWh shown for the Trip in LeafSpy (and all the other screens with screenshots, just to be sure), and the SOC, mileage and miles/kWh shown on the car's display. They should be close but may not agree exactly.

Now you can calculate the battery capacity: Divide the miles by the miles/kWh. That gives the number of kWH used in your drive. Then, subtract the ending SOC expressed as a decimal (i.e. 0.534, not 53.4%) from the starting SOC. Divide the calculated kWh by the difference in the SOCs and you should get a number around 20. That's your total calculated usable battery capacity in kWh. If it's < 18 that might be bad news.

Multiply that number by the mi/kWh you expect for your commute (about 5 in the city, about 4 at freeway speed, as shown across the top of the range chart) and you get your miles of range. Better add 10 or 20% for comfort, if possible Then multiply that range requirement by how much you expect your battery to degrade in the number of years you need the car to last (say, to 80% of it's current capacity, i.e. 0.80; I'm just making that number up...hopefully that would take quite a few years. 3? 5? 8? I have no idea, but probably not 8 years!) and see if that meets your needs


I did this for a drive to work yesterday - a typical round trip from home-work-home:
47 miles total; screen 4 on Leafspy shows 4.6 mi/kWh
47 / 4.6 = 10.2 kWh
Beginning SOC = 93%; ending SOC=45%
0.93 - 0.45 = 0.48
10.2 kWh / 0.48 = 21.25

From this range chart: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sfufez3dcdvrv ... 2.pdf?dl=0
I am going to use 3.9 - based on my average speed for those 47 miles in yesterday's drive.

21.25 kWh x 3.9 = ~83 miles (sounds high and also I couldn't drain the battery so I'll remove 20%) adjust to 66 miles range with these perfect conditions based on the above table.

Based on this link you provided: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24102
Typical winter temps here (not when it is brutally cold), I might get a drop in range of about 1/4 or down to about 50 miles.

It looks I will want to have a way to do some charging at work on cold days, especially for when I need the defogger.

How much the battery degrades over the years is difficult to know ahead of time. I guess time will tell. It would need to degrade to

Thanks!
2013 (4/2013) Pearl White SV LED/QC package

BuckMkII
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Less than one day until Carvana brings a Leaf

Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:45 am

ByeFO wrote:I did this for a drive to work yesterday - a typical round trip from home-work-home:
47 miles total; screen 4 on Leafspy shows 4.6 mi/kWh
47 / 4.6 = 10.2 kWh
Beginning SOC = 93%; ending SOC=45%
0.93 - 0.45 = 0.48
10.2 kWh / 0.48 = 21.25

From this range chart: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sfufez3dcdvrv ... 2.pdf?dl=0
I am going to use 3.9 - based on my average speed for those 47 miles in yesterday's drive.

21.25 kWh x 3.9 = ~83 miles (sounds high and also I couldn't drain the battery so I'll remove 20%) adjust to 66 miles range with these perfect conditions based on the above table.


Hmm. Those numbers seem pretty high, more like the numbers for a new car. In retrospect, the similar calculation I did on my test drive also came out pretty high: almost 1.5 kWh above what LeafSpy thinks I have at full charge. My faith in that method is starting to weaken. This may be a case of the blind leading the blind!

Your LS value of 231 GIDs matches the 11 bar range chart, so it seems safer to use the range prediction from that chart of 67 miles for your average. Can you leave five to ten minutes earlier and drive five to ten mph slower on the highway? That would magically buy you an extra five miles or so, in a pinch.

The fact that you used only about 50% of your full pack capacity to make the round trip seems reassuring, but I haven't experienced even slightly cold weather driving yet. Using the 25% loss assumption, it seems like you would be OK in winter, but without a huge margin of error. You're right: arranging L1 charging at work would let you run the heater freely on the way home! Maybe not a necessity for the first winter, but nice to have.
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
on 9/29/17: AHr = 55.3; SOH = 84%; Hx = 81.6; ODO = 41,492
bar 12 lost 8/21/17

Return to “New Members & Newbie Questions”