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ByeFO

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
69
Location
Philadelphia area
Tomorrow morning Carvana will be bringing a (possibly mine if I keep it) 2013 Leaf SV.

I have my Leaf Spy and the needed adapter/dongle and I will be cramming tonight to understand how to use it when the car arrives tomorrow. (If you have a link to a favorite beginner's guide to Leaf Spy Pro to evaluate a prospective Leaf, please let me know.)

The car has 22K miles, was used in Florida.

I need it for 44 total commuting miles per day with up to 40 of those miles being highway (65mph).

I am trying to figure out the mileage charts (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293)

What do you think is the minimum SOH I should look for to have the car work for this commute for the next 3 years? 4 years?

Also, I am going to have my favorite ICE mechanic look it over for signs of unreported accidents, frame damage, flood damage, etc...) Are there any other things I should have him check before my trial week is up?

Thanks!
 
I would think you need a SOH of at least 85% for it to meet your needs. Freeway speeds drain the battery much quicker that lower speed driving. Since it is coming from Florida, the odds of a high SOH % are not in your favor. If the Leaf was manufactured before April 2013, there is the possibility of a main battery replacement under warranty. But, there is only one summer left, and the bars don't drop as fast in northern climates.
 
Did you find this method yet?
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20676&start=20#p494600

It was recommended to me in this thread:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23983&p=495077#p495077

To try this, you need to go on a fairly long test drive. Clear the trip computer and the Energy History on the Leaf's displays, so you can use those as a backup or sanity check. Turn the car off completely then back on. This should reset the Trip information on LeafSpy (found in Summary screen: keep touching the text box just above the left end of the colorful SOC/GIDs/DTE display across the middle of the window until you have cycled to the Trip-Miles-mi/kWh display to find this). If the Trip data says 0.0 miles, note the SOC% on the car's display and take a screenshot of the LeafSpy "summary" screen (and all the others, just to be completist).

Then start driving 10-20 miles and try NOT to use regeneration: Turn Eco mode off, drive in D not B mode, and avoid braking, so the energy all comes from the battery *once* and isn't recycled into the battery then taken out again. Don't freak out about a little regen, just try not to do a lot of it. Driving on a freeway in cruise control at a little less than the speed of other traffic (so you don't have to brake or lift off the "gas" pedal) would be ideal. Then stop and record the SOC, the miles and the mi/kWh shown for the Trip in LeafSpy (and all the other screens with screenshots, just to be sure), and the SOC, mileage and miles/kWh shown on the car's display. They should be close but may not agree exactly.

Now you can calculate the battery capacity: Divide the miles by the miles/kWh. That gives the number of kWH used in your drive. Then, subtract the ending SOC expressed as a decimal (i.e. 0.534, not 53.4%) from the starting SOC. Divide the calculated kWh by the difference in the SOCs and you should get a number around 20. That's your total calculated usable battery capacity in kWh. If it's < 18 that might be bad news.

Multiply that number by the mi/kWh you expect for your commute (about 5 in the city, about 4 at freeway speed, as shown across the top of the range chart) and you get your miles of range. Better add 10 or 20% for comfort, if possible Then multiply that range requirement by how much you expect your battery to degrade in the number of years you need the car to last (say, to 80% of it's current capacity, i.e. 0.80; I'm just making that number up...hopefully that would take quite a few years. 3? 5? 8? I have no idea, but probably not 8 years!) and see if that meets your needs
 
I guess I don't understand why anyone would use Carvana

Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Good Luck
 
Sounds like this person is having the car delivered after buying it sight-unseen? I am sure that they will not allow the potential buyer to go on a "long drive"... A 2013 car is 5 years old, and one cannot assume that a Florida car will have a strong battery... Sounds like a case of "buyer beware"...
 
Leaf Spy plugged into car without any real driving yet.
It appears to be at SOH 82%. It is at 11 bars. Is this enough? See my first post.

Thank you!

uc
 
powersurge said:
Sounds like this person is having the car delivered after buying it sight-unseen? I am sure that they will not allow the potential buyer to go on a "long drive"... A 2013 car is 5 years old, and one cannot assume that a Florida car will have a strong battery... Sounds like a case of "buyer beware"...
I have a week to return for full refund.
 
You haven't mentioned what you're paying for it. you might be able to find a better deal locally, though that would require interacting with dealerships.

In the winter that might not be enough without charging at work. If you can convince them to allow you to even plug into a regular L1 then that would be sufficient to last you the whole time you're looking at, otherwise winters are gonna be tough. Philadelphia has a lot of charging infrastructure according to https://www.plugshare.com/#, so you may be able to rely on public chargers in the winter.

You should try out your commute and report back how low it is afterward. Start at 100% just to be sure. Maybe take screenshots of your leafspy data before you leave, when you get to work, and when you get home. Winter can reduce range by 30% or more depending on wind, snow, temperature, and heater usage. My commute of 37 miles (35 highway) in my 93% SOH 2015 uses anywhere between 50% and 75% of my battery depending on weather (approximately 10 to 15 kwh)
 
magico13 said:
You haven't mentioned what you're paying for it. you might be able to find a better deal locally, though that would require interacting with dealerships.
It is $10,750 which for my area is pretty good. Folks in some parts of the country can find much better deals, but I have been searching within 200 miles since March and it is easy to find used "S" for less or newer SV or SL for much more money. The dealers are crazy what they want for one. [/quote]

magico13 said:
In the winter that might not be enough without charging at work. If you can convince them to allow you to even plug into a regular L1 then that would be sufficient to last you the whole time you're looking at, otherwise winters are gonna be tough. Philadelphia has a lot of charging infrastructure according to https://www.plugshare.com/#, so you may be able to rely on public chargers in the winter.
I'm pretty sure I can run a heavy duty extension cord out the back door of the shopping center where my business is located for trickle charge. However, it means the car will be out in the sun. I will have to park away from the building in morning for shade, though I can move close to the building for shade in late afternoon and then try to run an extension out the back door.

magico13 said:
You should try out your commute and report back how low it is afterward. Start at 100% just to be sure. Maybe take screenshots of your leafspy data before you leave, when you get to work, and when you get home. Winter can reduce range by 30% or more depending on wind, snow, temperature, and heater usage. My commute of 37 miles (35 highway) in my 93% SOH 2015 uses anywhere between 50% and 75% of my battery depending on weather (approximately 10 to 15 kwh)
I just plugged it in to try to bring the charge back up to 100% before I leave for work. I just had installed a Clipper Creek HCS-50P this morning.
 
I am still an ignorant noob, so I will just ask: does anyone else think that the fairly high max-min cell voltage range and the three or four exceptionally low cells is a bad sign, or is that OK?

I always feel happier when I see that my pack has balanced itself to about 10 mV or less, but I don't know if that is really important. Mine looked like that (17 mV) on Saturday after I ran it down to VLBW, but after a 100% charge and a short, sharp drive it was back to 9 mV.
 
On the other screens, how many GIDs is it showing at that SOC, and what is the % GIDs?

Coincidentally, I just pulled my car (2013 SV, 39,158 miles) off the L2 charger at work 15 minutes ago and LeafSpy is showing SOC 95.2% (up from 61% after 65-70 minutes on the tap). Other numbers showing now are 237 GIDs, 84.3% GIDs, 72.1 miles to LBW at 5.1 miles/kWh, AHr = 55.96, SOH = 85%, Hx = 83.24, min/max = 9 mV, all but 7 cells are in 3 bins on the voltage histogram, mean battery sensor temp = 62.5°. Make of that what you will, because I don't really know what it means!

Edit: more info for your comparison: my car was born in July 2013, grew up in San Jose CA, and graduated from there to an auction in December 2016. I got it two weeks ago.

If you say "no" to this deal, do you have to eat the sales tax?
 
I still worry about what it'll be like in winter. If you only get 2.5 miles per kwh, you've only got about 42 miles to 5%. So in the case of a blizzard you might get stuck. Do you have another car you can take when weather is really bad? If so, I think you'll probably be alright when the weather is mild for a while but I'd still recommend checking plugshare for any chargers along your route in case things end up looking bad one day.
 
magico13 said:
I still worry about what it'll be like in winter. If you only get 2.5 miles per kwh, you've only got about 42 miles to 5%. So in the case of a blizzard you might get stuck. Do you have another car you can take when weather is really bad? If so, I think you'll probably be alright when the weather is mild for a while but I'd still recommend checking plugshare for any chargers along your route in case things end up looking bad one day.
I do have an old CR-V I plan on using when there is snow on the ground. I could use it for non-snow frigid weather. At what cold outdoor starting temp would it start to be a problem?

I am holding off installing a permanent EVSE at work since I rent the space. Can I use EVSE upgrade? I think that is what it is called and plug that into a 240V at work?

Thanks
 
Gentlemen, I think the time for worrying about your battery has been long overplayed.... Before, I tried to nicely suggest that you stop worrying. I am joining another topic because this is too much...
 
ByeFO said:
I do have an old CR-V I plan on using when there is snow on the ground. I could use it for non-snow frigid weather. At what cold outdoor starting temp would it start to be a problem?
Having the old CR-V as backup though the first winter seems reassuring. I guess if you're not keeping it forever, that might someday be a problem.

You can see a graph in this thread that may be of interest:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24073
There are A LOT caveats and arguments about that graph, so be sure to read the whole thread. When not crunching through snow, it seems maybe the "average" Leaf can go 50 miles in cold weather. Whether you can do that is another question.

If I were you, when it starts to get cold, I would dress REALLY warmly and do the trip with no heat. If (let's be optimistic and say "when") you get home with plenty of range left, try driving with some heat the next day for just part of the trip and sneak up on using heat the whole way.

Can you tap on the Summary screen three times where it now says 376.2V etc and get that to change to the Trip info? Seeing your current trip mileage and consumption might let someone with a similar trip and climate answer your question with more confidence.

BTW, it looks like your battery holds only 10 GIDs less than mine, if that.
 
You should be fine in the winter as long as you preheat while plugged in at home in the morning and keep the temperature setting low on the way home (use seat and steering wheel heaters). If you can plug in L1 at work, you have no worries. EVSE Upgrade is an excellent option if you have a 240- or 208-volt outlet at work. Tell me the type of outlet you have if you want more recommendations for charging at work.

Edited to add: Check your tire pressures. Pressures less than 40 psi will cause increased tire wear and reduce range. I run at least 44 psi cold. Your Leaf Spy screen shots show 3 tires low and 1 that may be high.
 
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