LeftieBiker
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Re: How important is charging only to 80%?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:00 am

The '13 Leaf manual (last US model year to have a setting to charge to 80%) does.


We don't disagree often, but we do here. The person I quoted was implying that people were telling others not to charge above 80% - period. No one does that, including Nissan. What we (and Nissan in 2013) DO do is tell people not to leave the car charged at or near 100% for long periods. I and everyone else I read here advises charging to 100% at least occasionally, to balance the pack, and most of us also say to feel free to charge to 100% as long as the car is driven not long afterwards. Now the water is muddy, and for no good reason.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

cwerdna
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Re: How important is charging only to 80%?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:18 am

FWIW, we've had countless threads about 80% vs. 100%. viewtopic.php?t=21821 was one. http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=479737#p479737 is someone advising
baustin wrote:For longest life, the battery charge level should be between 20% and 80% when sitting idle. There is nothing wrong with charging to 100%, just don't let it sit at 100% for extended periods, especially in high heat. I would suggest using the charge timer during the night, so the car is ready to go within an hour of when you are. When charging at work, plug it in sometime after lunch, so it is done just before you leave.

I'm not sure Nissan has published a list of how to maintain the battery warranty. Just try to avoid charging, if at all possible, when the battery is hot, and do not charge it to 100% and leave it there day-after-day without driving it.


Googling for the below will turn up other threads along these lines:
site:mynissanleaf.com 20% 80% charge
site:mynissanleaf.com 80% charge

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LeftieBiker
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Re: How important is charging only to 80%?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:27 am

Yes, this gets debated regularly. Now, back to the current dispute. Are you saying that we here at MNL are telling people never to charge a Leaf to 100%? Because someone just claimed that, and you seem to be supporting him or her in that claim. Why, I have no idea.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

cwerdna
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Re: How important is charging only to 80%?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:52 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Are you saying that we here at MNL are telling people never to charge a Leaf to 100%?

Maybe so. I don't recall who, if any.
LeftieBiker wrote: Because someone just claimed that, and you seem to be supporting him or her in that claim. Why, I have no idea.

I'm just presenting to the OP what the manual says and examples of this debate given the various li-ion battery literature, Nissan's hints/guidelines, people's various beliefs, etc.

For me, I generally only charge to 80% except for the few times where I prefer to have more than 80% or the full 100%. My commute's short enough (no more than ~13 miles each way) that charging to 80% is more than enough to go home and make it back to work, where I can charge for free. I live in and work in hotter parts of the SF Bay Area. So, unfortunately, my battery doesn't have anywhere close to as good as the Seattle area, Oregon, and cooler cities in the Bay Area like SF, Pacifica, Half Moon Bay, etc.

On weekends, to avoid having to charge much/at all at home, I do break the rule and the car might be at as high as 90 to 92% (per dash display) SoC for 12 to 16+ hours. This is the result of charging to 100% at work and often using free public L2 on the way home/on the weekend. Unless I hypermile, I can't arrive home w/any higher than 92%.

I don't care generally about the "20%" guideline but I've personally never left my car at below 10% for more than 6 or 7 hours, nor do I run it that low regularly. I'm not really convinced that there's any issue with low SoC beyond what I quoted in the manual. I've never run my cars to turtle yet but wouldn't want to leave it in turtle (if I did) for more than a day.

FWIW, some have attributed the gen 1 Volt's apparent minimal degradation to its battery thermal management and only using a narrower SoC range in the middle of the battery than the Leaf typically does. Teslas also have battery thermal management and Model S reportedly suffers from minimal degradation probably due to this, many trips resulting in not very high DoD and I suspect many owners don't often charge to 100% as they (AFAIK) have some sort of charge limit % UI. Looks like they allow 10% and 2% increments.

Examples of literature: (not that some of the data/discussion may not be of the variant the Leaf uses)
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... ithium_ion
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... _batteries
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... ithium_ion

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
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GlennD
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Re: How important is charging only to 80%?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:29 am

I charge my eGolf to 80% to simply have regen available . At 100% I have to wait a while. Since the car is leased for 3 years and I plan to turn it in the state of the battery is irreverent but 80% is a convenience.
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IssacZachary
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Re: How important is charging only to 80%?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:52 pm

Each situation is different.

My wife will take the Leaf to her place of work (less than 3 miles away) and sometimes it just sits there the rest of the day. So I charge to 80%. That way it sits at her job at 76% instead of at 96% all day in the sun.

Charging to 80% does give you regen right away. So it's more efficient if you have to take off in stop and go traffic right away in the mornings.

An idea I've had is to only charge to 70% with 12 capacity bars, 80% with 11 bars, then 90% with 10 bars, and then 100% at 9 bars. That way, by the time I get the traction battery replaced at 8 bars the whole time I'll have had approximately the same range. Not feeling range degradation would be nice, I think.
2013 SL 50,000 miles.
12 bars until 44,300 miles on June 2, 2017. :D
11 bars current. :)
The Nissan Leaf is the fourth best long distance car for highway driving. >>Best Long Distance Cars<<

JohnKuthe
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Re: How important is charging only to 80%?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:30 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
The '13 Leaf manual (last US model year to have a setting to charge to 80%) does.


We don't disagree often, but we do here. The person I quoted was implying that people were telling others not to charge above 80% - period. No one does that, including Nissan. What we (and Nissan in 2013) DO do is tell people not to leave the car charged at or near 100% for long periods. I and everyone else I read here advises charging to 100% at least occasionally, to balance the pack, and most of us also say to feel free to charge to 100% as long as the car is driven not long afterwards. Now the water is muddy, and for no good reason.


My 2103 Leaf is my primary transportation, driven almost everyday. I love keeping INF-MPG 100% charged even though I KNOW it's not best for it's traction battery. And it's so easy and quick now that I had 240VAC run to each car space in my three car garages!

John Kuthe...

LeftieBiker
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Re: How important is charging only to 80%?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:17 pm

I'm beginning to think that reading for comprehension is dead, like the English language in general...
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

alozzy
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Re: How important is charging only to 80%?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:29 pm

:lol:
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