Hi everyone – planning to buy our first Leaf

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lukep

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
7
Location
Bellevue, WA
Hi everyone,

I'm Luke, and my wife and I live near Seattle. We're planning to sell our second car and buy a CPO Leaf. However, since the 2nd generation models are expected to be announced soon I'm thinking that we should wait until then to buy to hopefully get a lower price. I imagine that once the 2018s are on sale there will be a flood of 2 year leases on the secondary market.

Do you think it's worth waiting, or do you think prices on the secondary market will stay about the same? FWIW prices now in the area are about $10,000 for a 2015 CPO.

I've bought a bluetooth dongle to use with Leaf Spy to check the battery pack on any car we're interested in. Other than that, any suggestions as to what I should be thinking about?

Thanks.
 
We need to know your driving needs in terms of range and speed. Also, please put your location in your signature line as well, as this info is often needed.
 
Personally I don't think prices on the used Leafs will drop much, if any. I believe in most markets used Leafs have actually risen lately. Now if you were talking a new Leaf, sure I think the prices left on any remaining 30kw Leafs will drop like a rock once a longer range Leaf comes out but I don't think so much on something like a '15, which IMO the price you posted seems like a pretty good deal. '13S's in my market are darn near $10K but Leaf prices really vary by location.
 
LeftieBiker said:
We need to know your driving needs in terms of range and speed. Also, please put your location in your signature line as well, as this info is often needed.
Thanks. This will be a short-range commuter. In general it will be used for in-city commutes of 15 miles or less round trip, but with occasional highway/city drives of 30 miles or less round trip.
We will keep it in our (uninsulated) garage, which already has a dryer in it. I'm looking for threads with good info on our options for the garage to install a L2 charger. From what I've read, sounds like having a dryer outlet in the garage should spare us the major expense of having wiring run out to the garage.
I like the idea of the Obercharger, but will get some estimates for a second outlet.

jjeff said:
Personally I don't think prices on the used Leafs will drop much, if any. I believe in most markets used Leafs have actually risen lately. Now if you were talking a new Leaf, sure I think the prices left on any remaining 30kw Leafs will drop like a rock once a longer range Leaf comes out but I don't think so much on something like a '15, which IMO the price you posted seems like a pretty good deal. '13S's in my market are darn near $10K but Leaf prices really vary by location.
Thanks for the perspective. Leafs are pretty popular here, so there is a very large CPO selection of lease returns. After selling our current second car (Honda Fit), I'm hoping to be $5-6k out of pocket for the Leaf. It sounds like it may wind up costing a bit more than that. :p
 
My advice is to buy a CPO Leaf (or just a dealer used Leaf, for the warranty) with one or even two capacity bars missing. That will get you a good price, and it looks like you can use the car until it has 5 bars gone. Your cooler climate should make that at least 5 years in the future.
 
Installing a charger in your garage will not be a "major expense". Installation of a 240 line should only be about $2-300 if your attached garage does not have one...
 
powersurge said:
Installing a charger in your garage will not be a "major expense". Installation of a 240 line should only be about $2-300 if your attached garage does not have one...
But in other cases, installing an EVSE can be a lot more. In 2013, the city permit only for an EVSE was $310.

And, in some cases, it can be a lot more like for me: http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8264#p8264. This was for a "free" EVSE and standard installation via https://web.archive.org/web/20130728215042/http://evsolutions.avinc.com:80/products/cec/cec_program_overview. That program's LONG over. The saga of my posts on this began at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6872#p6872.
 
Don't forget that you can offset some of the costs of the charging station with the Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit if you qualify (IRS Form 8911).

https://www.irs.gov/uac/form-8911-alternative-fuel-vehicle-refueling-property-credit

Some power companies also provide tax incentives or rebates for EV installations. Mine, Pacific Gas & Electric, offers a a rebate of $500 per vehicle (providing it has not been claimed by a previous owner). Check with your local supplier.

https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/solar-and-vehicles/options/clean-vehicles/electric/clean-fuel-rebate-for-electric-vehicles.page


Between the two, I basically got my charging station for free.
 
Thanks for the ideas! I checked and PSE isn't offering any rebates for charger installation but we will qualify for the tax credit. I'd like to get a charger that allows me to choose when it charges so we can charge when it's cheaper.

I've been searching for guides on what to look for on Leaf Spy, if anyone has suggestions. I've not had good luck with the videos I've found of YouTube.
 
lukep said:
Thanks for the ideas! I checked and PSE isn't offering any rebates for charger installation but we will qualify for the tax credit. I'd like to get a charger that allows me to choose when it charges so we can charge when it's cheaper.

My Cliper Creek Charging station does not have timer capabilities, but the Leaf does. I set my Leaf charge end time to 30 minutes before I leave for work in the morning and 8am on weekends. If I need to charge outside of that schedule, I just hit the charge switch on the dash and away it goes. Research the different charging solutions and their options and find what fits your needs best.

lukep said:
I've been searching for guides on what to look for on Leaf Spy, if anyone has suggestions. I've not had good luck with the videos I've found of YouTube.

Because you're searching in the wrong place. Search here.

Some helpful stuff:

http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23808&p=491659&hilit=Buyers+guide#p491659

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21919

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8342


The LeafSpy help page on the app is something a lot of people don't bother with. It has great information on how to use the app.


Although as a new member and new leaf owner, I found information a bit scattered myself. I simplified my search this way:

If I found a prospective leaf online, and had the VIN, I would check out the Carfax report and VIN lookup:

http://cpo.nissanusa.com/nna/?

Append the VIN to the end of that URL in your browser and, you'll see a PDF of the original sales sticker in your browser. This doesn't work for every leaf, but will give you good information on the vehicles it does pull up, such as options installed.

Mileage isn't as big of a factor on these cars, but make sure you pick something that looks like it was cared for.

I would check the door jam on the drivers side for the manufacture date. Anything 4/2013 or later was on my good list as it's reported that the battery chemistry was improved at that time.

As far as LeafSpy, the numbers I was concerned with were:

SOC: (State of charge): The percentage of charge on the battery currently.

SOH: (State of health): The battery capacity remaining (100% when the car is new but decreases over time and use). As this number drops, the number of 'bars' on the far right dash decreases from 12 down to 1. The threshhold of each bar dropping varies. My Leaf still has all 12 bars and has a SOH of 89%. As you lose bars, you lose range on a full charge.

aHR: (Amp hours at full charge): Like SOH, this indicates the health of the battery. New, I believe the 24kWh Leaf is at ~66 aHR. Mine was at 58.8 when purchased. Once again, you start to lose capacity bars on the dash, and range, as this number decreases. I was shooting for 58+ on my search to meet me range needs.

Apparently dealers and re-sellers can perform a BMS reset, which will reset the capacity bars on the dash board to indicate 12 bars where actual capacity was lower. An example indication of this would be a 12 bar leaf, with an SOC of <75% or aHR of <53. The system would eventually recalibrate and reduce the number of capacity bars on the dash, but potentially not until after the purchase was made. I didn't run into any of these BMS reset leaf's in my search.

Using the bar graph on the main screen, I kept an eye out for bad cells that were way out of range. ALthough balancing can take care of some of this, I was looking for red flags that might indicate a bad cell. All it takes is one to affect the whole pack.

There's also the number L1/L2 and Quick Charges on that first screen in LeafSpy, but I'm not sure how detrimental QC's are to the battery life. Mine only reported '1', so it wasn't a concern of mine.

Take my info with a grain of salt as I probably got something wrong. Someone will come by shortly and correct me if that's the case.
 
Thank you for the detailed response, hackdroot, it is very helpful. I'm getting ready to sell our Fit, and once that's done I'll start car shopping!
 
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