GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:28 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:It appears that the 2019 LEAF e+ with 60kWh battery and 225 EPA range will have Tempertaure Management of the battery.


With an expected increase in chademo speed as well. Hard to believe otherwise. The real question becomes can they do it all and keep the price down? Its my thinking that is the reason they have not already come out with it. They want to maintain that $30-35K price range or at least near that.


This is my thinking. But it's based more on hope and wishful thinking than any kind of hard facts.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

Jedlacks
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:10 pm
Delivery Date: 29 May 2016
Location: Kennesaw, GA

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:37 am

I agree with Tony and Dave. There is space on the market for two versions of the Leaf, because not everybody is longing to spend upwards of "Bolt EV" money on an EV. Additionally, not everybody needs 230+ miles per charge. We are happy with the 80-100 mile range of our Leaf, and if I got another job that is 50+ miles one way, I will rather move. Bear in mind I live in the Atlanta suburbs.

Nevertheless, I will be willing to trade in our German SUV for a similarly classed EV, but I am not willing to spend another 80k-100K on a vehicle if this SUV breaks. We put less than 8,000 miles a year on it because wifey is a stay at home mom.
2015 SV QC/LED
Juicebox 40A

webeleafowners
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:04 am

Jedlacks wrote:I agree with Tony and Dave. There is space on the market for two versions of the Leaf, because not everybody is longing to spend upwards of "Bolt EV" money on an EV. Additionally, not everybody needs 230+ miles per charge. We are happy with the 80-100 mile range of our Leaf, and if I got another job that is 50+ miles one way, I will rather move. Bear in mind I live in the Atlanta suburbs.

Nevertheless, I will be willing to trade in our German SUV for a similarly classed EV, but I am not willing to spend another 80k-100K on a vehicle if this SUV breaks. We put less than 8,000 miles a year on it because wifey is a stay at home mom.


We are in this same situation. Our existing leaf 2016 30KWH serves 100 percent of our needs. That will change when we retire in 5 years and we will get something with a solid 300 KM of range at that time. But I don't think I would ever pay more to go to say 500 KM of range. So if the 500 km range was the same price fine, but if a manufacturer has a 300 km version and a 500 km version it wold be a waste for us to buy anything over 300. I hope manufacturers in the future continue to offer medium range EV's at lower cost.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KW
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

SageBrush
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:34 am

webeleafowners wrote:
Jedlacks wrote:I agree with Tony and Dave. There is space on the market for two versions of the Leaf, because not everybody is longing to spend upwards of "Bolt EV" money on an EV. Additionally, not everybody needs 230+ miles per charge. We are happy with the 80-100 mile range of our Leaf, and if I got another job that is 50+ miles one way, I will rather move. Bear in mind I live in the Atlanta suburbs.

Nevertheless, I will be willing to trade in our German SUV for a similarly classed EV, but I am not willing to spend another 80k-100K on a vehicle if this SUV breaks. We put less than 8,000 miles a year on it because wifey is a stay at home mom.


We are in this same situation. Our existing leaf 2016 30KWH serves 100 percent of our needs. That will change when we retire in 5 years and we will get something with a solid 300 KM of range at that time. But I don't think I would ever pay more to go to say 500 KM of range. So if the 500 km range was the same price fine, but if a manufacturer has a 300 km version and a 500 km version it wold be a waste for us to buy anything over 300. I hope manufacturers in the future continue to offer medium range EV's at lower cost.

One already does -- The VERY nicely equipped Tesla Model 3 220 mile range with Supercharger network for $36k. You can of course pay more for options like a front to back glass roof and rear heated seats.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

webeleafowners
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:58 am

SageBrush wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:
Jedlacks wrote:I agree with Tony and Dave. There is space on the market for two versions of the Leaf, because not everybody is longing to spend upwards of "Bolt EV" money on an EV. Additionally, not everybody needs 230+ miles per charge. We are happy with the 80-100 mile range of our Leaf, and if I got another job that is 50+ miles one way, I will rather move. Bear in mind I live in the Atlanta suburbs.

Nevertheless, I will be willing to trade in our German SUV for a similarly classed EV, but I am not willing to spend another 80k-100K on a vehicle if this SUV breaks. We put less than 8,000 miles a year on it because wifey is a stay at home mom.


We are in this same situation. Our existing leaf 2016 30KWH serves 100 percent of our needs. That will change when we retire in 5 years and we will get something with a solid 300 KM of range at that time. But I don't think I would ever pay more to go to say 500 KM of range. So if the 500 km range was the same price fine, but if a manufacturer has a 300 km version and a 500 km version it wold be a waste for us to buy anything over 300. I hope manufacturers in the future continue to offer medium range EV's at lower cost.

One already does -- The VERY nicely equipped Tesla Model 3 220 mile range with Supercharger network for $36k. You can of course pay more for options like a front to back glass roof and rear heated seats.


Yah the T3 looks really nice. It is a contender but only if Tesla opens up a service centre a little closer to us. Right now they are 500 KM away. By the time we retire there will be more players although I wouldn't hesitate to go Nissan again. The supercharger network is a nice to have not a need to have thing for us as DCFC is growing well where we drive. It should be fun.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KW
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

edatoakrun
Posts: 4563
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:02 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:It appears that the 2019 LEAF e+ with 60kWh battery and 225 EPA range will have Tempertaure Management of the battery.

With an expected increase in chademo speed as well. Hard to believe otherwise. The real question becomes can they do it all and keep the price down? Its my thinking that is the reason they have not already come out with it. They want to maintain that $30-35K price range or at least near that.

This is my thinking. But it's based more on hope and wishful thinking than any kind of hard facts.

It would have been an odd decision, IMO to add either liquid cooling or pack insulation to the 2018 LEAF.

Even more bizarre, would be to add it to only some of (the likely lower production volume, higher capacity pack versions) the 2019 LEAFs.

Adding either feature is relatively trivial from an engineering standpoint, though very expensive in terms of production cost and efficiency.

If Nissan saw any benefit, why did it not add either or both features to the 2018 MY?

So, while anything is possible, until a high integrity source reports otherwise, I think we should expect Nissan to retain passive thermal management, primarily utilizing conductive cooling, in all 2019 MY LEAFs.

Either or both pack designs could use suppplementary active air cooling, much as some other BEV manufactures have, which is very low cost, but provides minimal benefits in terms of reducing battery temperature.

I'd regard blowing air from the standard AC system over the cell cases as mainly a placebo for those suffering from capacity loss anxiety, but it would allow Nissan to tout this benefit, to those misinformed buyers for which it could be appealing.
no condition is permanent

SageBrush
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:13 pm

webeleafowners wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:
We are in this same situation. Our existing leaf 2016 30KWH serves 100 percent of our needs. That will change when we retire in 5 years and we will get something with a solid 300 KM of range at that time. But I don't think I would ever pay more to go to say 500 KM of range. So if the 500 km range was the same price fine, but if a manufacturer has a 300 km version and a 500 km version it wold be a waste for us to buy anything over 300. I hope manufacturers in the future continue to offer medium range EV's at lower cost.

One already does -- The VERY nicely equipped Tesla Model 3 220 mile range with Supercharger network for $36k. You can of course pay more for options like a front to back glass roof and rear heated seats.


Yah the T3 looks really nice. It is a contender but only if Tesla opens up a service centre a little closer to us. Right now they are 500 KM away. By the time we retire there will be more players although I wouldn't hesitate to go Nissan again. The supercharger network is a nice to have not a need to have thing for us as DCFC is growing well where we drive. It should be fun.

My service center is even further away. I'm going to take a (hopefully small) leap of faith and rely on Tesla reliability and the Ranger service. Oh, and continue to advocate for a service manual so I can perform the simple maintenance at home.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

johnlocke
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:16 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:With an expected increase in chademo speed as well. Hard to believe otherwise. The real question becomes can they do it all and keep the price down? Its my thinking that is the reason they have not already come out with it. They want to maintain that $30-35K price range or at least near that.

This is my thinking. But it's based more on hope and wishful thinking than any kind of hard facts.

It would have been an odd decision, IMO to add either liquid cooling or pack insulation to the 2018 LEAF.

Even more bizarre, would be to add it to only some of (the likely lower production volume, higher capacity pack versions) the 2019 LEAFs.

Adding either feature is relatively trivial from an engineering standpoint, though very expensive in terms of production cost and efficiency.

If Nissan saw any benefit, why did it not add either or both features to the 2018 MY?

So, while anything is possible, until a high integrity source reports otherwise, I think we should expect Nissan to retain passive thermal management, primarily utilizing conductive cooling, in all 2019 MY LEAFs.

Either or both pack designs could use suppplementary active air cooling, much as some other BEV manufactures have, which is very low cost, but provides minimal benefits in terms of reducing battery temperature.

I'd regard blowing air from the standard AC system over the cell cases as mainly a placebo for those suffering from capacity loss anxiety, but it would allow Nissan to tout this benefit, to those misinformed buyers for which it could be appealing.

Air cooling via internal fans would be relatively cheap to do and have a minimal drain on the battery. Even a small airflow will remove a surprising amount of heat. MIght not help much while driving but could certainly help during charging. Could also cool down the battery while parked particularly overnight. It would have to be better than sitting in stagnant air trying to cool. I suppose that you could even vent into the rear passenger compartment for a little extra heat in the winter and dump it outside in the summer.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

lorenfb
Posts: 1236
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:32 pm

johnlocke wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:This is my thinking. But it's based more on hope and wishful thinking than any kind of hard facts.

It would have been an odd decision, IMO to add either liquid cooling or pack insulation to the 2018 LEAF.

Even more bizarre, would be to add it to only some of (the likely lower production volume, higher capacity pack versions) the 2019 LEAFs.

Adding either feature is relatively trivial from an engineering standpoint, though very expensive in terms of production cost and efficiency.

If Nissan saw any benefit, why did it not add either or both features to the 2018 MY?

So, while anything is possible, until a high integrity source reports otherwise, I think we should expect Nissan to retain passive thermal management, primarily utilizing conductive cooling, in all 2019 MY LEAFs.

Either or both pack designs could use suppplementary active air cooling, much as some other BEV manufactures have, which is very low cost, but provides minimal benefits in terms of reducing battery temperature.

I'd regard blowing air from the standard AC system over the cell cases as mainly a placebo for those suffering from capacity loss anxiety, but it would allow Nissan to tout this benefit, to those misinformed buyers for which it could be appealing.

Air cooling via internal fans would be relatively cheap to do and have a minimal drain on the battery. Even a small airflow will remove a surprising amount of heat. MIght not help much while driving but could certainly help during charging. Could also cool down the battery while parked particularly overnight. It would have to be better than sitting in stagnant air trying to cool. I suppose that you could even vent into the rear passenger compartment for a little extra heat in the winter and dump it outside in the summer.


It depends how the battery is mounted/attached to the vehicle's chassis and the thermal resistance between
the battery and the chassis. If the thermal resistance is effectively zero, then the fans must also cool the
vehicle's chassis to cool the battery.

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 4350
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:48 pm

edatoakrun wrote:It would have been an odd decision, IMO to add either liquid cooling or pack insulation to the 2018 LEAF.

Even more bizarre, would be to add it to only some of (the likely lower production volume, higher capacity pack versions) the 2019 LEAFs.

Adding either feature is relatively trivial from an engineering standpoint, though very expensive in terms of production cost and efficiency.

If Nissan saw any benefit, why did it not add either or both features to the 2018 MY?


May have to do with the 60kWH pack being a different chemistry (NMC 811).
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

Return to “New Members & Newbie Questions”