If you had a pre-4/2013 Leaf and lived in Phoenix or Texas or a hot part of So Cal and compared notes w/those in mild climate climates like those in Oregon or the Seattle area, you'd think differently.
powersurge wrote:I think all this worry and complaint about battery cooling and deterioration is all a myth that some are using to either discredit the Nissan company or for Nissan to blame battery deterioration on temperature rather than time. If all members recall their past experience, they may see my point.
Let's step back. Nissan in the past made claims like the ones at viewtopic.php?f=30&t=22446&p=469608&hilit=percent+perry#p469608 (70 to 80% remaining after to year life, we don't need thermal management, etc.)
We first started seeing capacity bars being lost in May 2012 with viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802, that ballooned into an over 785 page thread. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9694 is a summary. There ended up being a lot of noise in the Phoenix local media, on MNL and elsewhere. TonyWilliams w/the help of other folks here ran a range test, results at https://web.archive.org/web/20130115102 ... p?p=228326 posted on Sept 18, 2012 (first deliveries of Leaf were in Dec 2010). Leaf had only been out ~21 months and yet we already had 1 to 4 bar losers and no capacity warranty either. So... 30+% loss in under 2 years vs. 10????
Some of the Phoenix Leafers had their cars collected by Nissan temporarily for testing. TickTock actually met w/Nissan engineers on this.
It seems like the above and an unbeknownst to us Klee class action lawsuit forced Nissan to provide a retroactive 5 year/60K capacity warranty: viewtopic.php?t=13192.
You've also ignored literature stating capacity loss reduction is worse at higher temps (e.g. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... _batteries, but that's not the same chemistry used in the Leaf). There are numerous chemistries (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... ithium_ion), some more sensitive to high temps than others.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9694 has a quote from Charles Whalen
the LiMn2O4 chemistry, that both GM and Nissan are using in the Volt and Leaf, being the most heat sensitive and having the shortest life at higher ambients)
I personally know 2 folks in my part of the Bay Area who lost 4 bars on their '11 or '12 Leaf in time to get their battery replaced under capacity warranty. There are many more.
As for cycling vs. temp: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/108 ... red-monday commutes 130 miles/day in his Leaf. He has to charge fully on both ends but he lives in a cool climate.
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12781 - at ~2 year mark, he lost 1 bar at 76K miles. Compare that to the <21 month old Phoenician Leafs w/WAY less mileage but blazing heat that were down 1-4 bars.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 036995594/ in the mild PNW lost his first bar on his '13 at 92.7K miles.
As I posted at viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24023&p=496269&hilit=phoenix+contrast#p496269 a pointer to viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995, this guy is in Phoenix.
elec7ric wrote:I got my new 2013 SL (manufactured 5/2013 ) on 9/30/2013. Lost my first bar 5/2015, second bar 9/2015, third bar 5/2016 and forth bar 8/23/2016 (31,400 miles). First 21 months mostly charged L1/L2 to 80% (home and work). My drive was 55 miles round trip with about 75% highway. As capacity started to go away, I had to charge more often to 100%, however, I tried my best to keep it fully charged as little as possible (extreme Phoenix temperatures).
My 5/2013 built '13 that I bought used in July 2015 STILL has all 12 capacity bars and I'm past 49,2K miles. From Leaf Spy, I am getting close to losing 1 bar (SOH at around 86%, Hx at around 83.92%)
The 6/2013 built '13 Leaf I leased for 2 years, I have a screenshot of the stats near turn in. On 7/23/2015, was at AHr: 58.57, SOH: 89%, Hx: 88.89%, odo: 23,342 miles. It had 12 bars at turn in.
I also have a screenshot of the 5/2013-built '13 Leaf I'm driving now on 7/16/2015 showing AHr: 60.15, SOH, 91%, Hx: 92.12%, odo: 23,850 miles. It had 12 bars when I purchased in July 2015 and still does now.
We later discovered that it seems '13 Leafs built 4/2013 and later do MUCH better in terms of degradation than pre-4/2013 built Leafs.
GerryAZ in Phoenix has also given a comparison of how his lizard battery is doing vs. previous ones: viewtopic.php?p=499072#p499072 and viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24407&p=502456&hilit=11+bars+2011#p502456.
Prior to lizard battery announcement (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168), Nissan was talking about a "hot" battery in testing that's more heat resistant. At viewtopic.php?t=23983, I pointed to a paper at http://www.nec.com/en/global/techrep/jo ... 120112.pdf (Leaf batteries are made by AESC, a JV between Nissan and NEC, soon to be sold to a Chinese company) which discusses degradation depending on temp and a newly developed cell (maybe the lizard battery?) that degrades less at high temps.
Some folks that got replacements before the "hot"/lizard battery was available were supposed to get coupons for another swap to the better "hot" battery. Some pointers at viewtopic.php?p=499828#p499828.
You should monitor viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606 on the disappointing 30 kWh batteries. There are already 1 to 4 bar losers (usually in hotter climates). There are somewhere between 2 and 4 4 bar losers that we know of. You can't blame this stuff on cycling vs. what GerryAZ has already done in Phoenix on his '15 lizard battery.
You should also monitor all the other battery degradation threads. You will see a very strong correlation between hotter climates (doesn't need to be Phoenix-level) and worse degradation.
Below's a Sacramento lizard battery car, for instance. It's no surprise that it's already in worse shape than my 5/2013 built Leaf.