DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12310
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:07 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:This.

After my discussions with lorenfb, where (s)he only saw a few degrees temp increase from QC'ing less than 15 mins, I saw an almost 30 degree increase from a 27 min QC. QC'ing that 40kwh pack will make for even higher temp increase from the higher sustained fast charging.


the temp rise especially from LEAF Spy readings takes time to equalize and as always the rise has to do with starting temp as it relates to ambient so your statement needs a lot more info to mean anything.


It was in my discussion with lorenfb. Here's the relevant posting: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=24379&p=504979#p504979

Following that chain will provide the context. It was a very warm day that day.

I think one other poster said it best. Those of us in hot areas should just protect ourselves and NOT consider the leaf.


oh ok... another waylaid conversation courtesy of one of the poorest designed sites on the web...

Yeah, couple things; I did a "few" charges during very warm weather and noticed very fast temperature drops after the charge was over like 8-10º within 10 mins after leaving the charger under what would normally not be an easy "battery drive"

This leads me to believe that some sensors are not positioned well to give a good overall temperature reading of the pack

the only other conclusion is the movement of the car was causing the temps to drop quickly which would imply some sort of venting and well all know that can't possibly be true...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

johnlocke
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:20 am

lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote:@johnlocke ,
This article
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/06/a- ... ery-packs/
says that the 24 kWh LEAF has 192 cells. Since we know it has a 96S arrangement, it must have a 2P arrangement

I had earlier posted that I expected the 40 kwh pack to have as poor a longevity as the 24 kWh, but given the tighter packing in the same volume and therefore higher impedance, I'm now wondering if the dense packs will do even worse.


To make it simple to understand comparatively:

1. The Leaf has 96 cells stacked in series at about 12.5 Whrs per cell, about 4.1V per cell.
There are essentially 20 parallel stacks (or 2 groups with 10 parallels) resulting in 1920 cells for a total capacity of 24kWhrs.
2. The MS has 96 18650 cells essentially stacked is series and assuming about 12.5 Whrs per cell .
There are essentially 70 parallel stacks resulting in 6720 cells for a total capacity of 84kWhrs.

The key point from the noted reference is that the internal battery resistances are essentially equal:

The P95D pack is 96S74P, so (96/74)*(59 mOhm) = 63.5 mOhm. Altogether the bolted joints and busbars and such come to another 0.5 mOhms, for a net 64 mOhms per pack.


The Nissan Leaf uses pouch cells that are laserwelded together; these particular pouches are optimized for impedence at the expense of energy density at around 1.2mOhm and 30Ah per cell. This makes cooling significantly easier (and therefore the pack much cheaper), and there are 48x 2S2P modules. The net resistance is (48*2/2)*(1.2mOhm) = 57.6mOhm.


So given that both battery packs have essentially the same internal resistance but the Tesla weighs 1.4X the Leaf,
it will theoretically use 2X power (1.4X the current) of the Leaf for its rolling resistance at moderate speeds
(~ 40 - 50 MPH).

Use this for power losses: http://ecomodder.com/forum/tool-aero-rolling-resistance.php

The Leaf has 96 cells arranged in series. 96*4=386vdc. at 1.2 mohm a piece that's 115.2 mohm. A 95 KWH Tesla battery is arranged with 74 cells in parallel. At 59 mohms each 74 cells in parallel, 59/74=.797 mohms. 96 modules * .797 =76.54 mohms. Since your source knows that the Leaf module is comprised of two cells in a single module, I'll assume that he tested an individual cell for the internal resistance value given. I'm done with this conversation.
2016 SV
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:42 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
the temp rise especially from LEAF Spy readings takes time to equalize and as always the rise has to do with starting temp as it relates to ambient so your statement needs a lot more info to mean anything.


It was in my discussion with lorenfb. Here's the relevant posting: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=24379&p=504979#p504979

Following that chain will provide the context. It was a very warm day that day.

I think one other poster said it best. Those of us in hot areas should just protect ourselves and NOT consider the leaf.


oh ok... another waylaid conversation courtesy of one of the poorest designed sites on the web...

Yeah, couple things; I did a "few" charges during very warm weather and noticed very fast temperature drops after the charge was over like 8-10º within 10 mins after leaving the charger under what would normally not be an easy "battery drive"

This leads me to believe that some sensors are not positioned well to give a good overall temperature reading of the pack

the only other conclusion is the movement of the car was causing the temps to drop quickly which would imply some sort of venting and well all know that can't possibly be true...


Okay. Do you think my sensors are placed too close to the core of the cells? Because in my case, the temp only dropped about 4 degrees F in the 45 min drive home (stop and go traffic at the beginning too).
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12310
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:47 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
It was in my discussion with lorenfb. Here's the relevant posting: http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 79#p504979

Following that chain will provide the context. It was a very warm day that day.

I think one other poster said it best. Those of us in hot areas should just protect ourselves and NOT consider the leaf.


oh ok... another waylaid conversation courtesy of one of the poorest designed sites on the web...

Yeah, couple things; I did a "few" charges during very warm weather and noticed very fast temperature drops after the charge was over like 8-10º within 10 mins after leaving the charger under what would normally not be an easy "battery drive"

This leads me to believe that some sensors are not positioned well to give a good overall temperature reading of the pack

the only other conclusion is the movement of the car was causing the temps to drop quickly which would imply some sort of venting and well all know that can't possibly be true...


Okay. Do you think my sensors are placed too close to the core of the cells? Because in my case, the temp only dropped about 4 degrees F in the 45 min drive home (stop and go traffic at the beginning too).


no, my situation was likely more to do with greater delta from ambient. I blogged where I dropped from 126º to 120º in literally a few miles. OAT mid 80's, freeway speed 70 mph. Temps were 116-118º in roughly 15 mins.

That was a 4 charge day

In your case, stop and go on asphalt pretty much means ambient temps are out the window.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:55 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
oh ok... another waylaid conversation courtesy of one of the poorest designed sites on the web...

Yeah, couple things; I did a "few" charges during very warm weather and noticed very fast temperature drops after the charge was over like 8-10º within 10 mins after leaving the charger under what would normally not be an easy "battery drive"

This leads me to believe that some sensors are not positioned well to give a good overall temperature reading of the pack

the only other conclusion is the movement of the car was causing the temps to drop quickly which would imply some sort of venting and well all know that can't possibly be true...


Okay. Do you think my sensors are placed too close to the core of the cells? Because in my case, the temp only dropped about 4 degrees F in the 45 min drive home (stop and go traffic at the beginning too).


no, my situation was likely more to do with greater delta from ambient. I blogged where I dropped from 126º to 120º in literally a few miles. OAT mid 80's, freeway speed 70 mph. Temps were 116-118º in roughly 15 mins.

That was a 4 charge day

In your case, stop and go on asphalt pretty much means ambient temps are out the window.


It wasn't that bad, dropped to 90F when charging started near sunset, but I hadn't considered that the asphault probably retained a substantial amount of heat and might've been near 100F still.

All the same though, I still saw a considerable amount of temp increase from doing a 27 min QC (because didn't want to make multiple stops with passengers and bigger battery permitted this). The 40kwh leaf can only see a worse situation, as someone is more likely to charge from LBW to 80% with that battery, and taking ~40 mins to do so. Factoring in a best case of 5% charging loss (assuming it's drawing 45kw max), that's ~2.2kw of power that goes into heating the battery pack.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

lorenfb
Posts: 1405
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:21 am

johnlocke wrote:The Leaf has 96 cells arranged in series. 96*4=386vdc. at 1.2 mohm a piece that's 115.2 mohm. A 95 KWH Tesla battery is arranged with 74 cells in parallel. At 59 mohms each 74 cells in parallel, 59/74=.797 mohms. 96 modules * .797 =76.54 mohms. Since your source knows that the Leaf module is comprised of two cells in a single module, I'll assume that he tested an individual cell for the internal resistance value given. I'm done with this conversation.


Your 115.2 mohm value for the Leaf is 2X what it actually is. Get and use LeafSpy and you'll find you're wrong.
Remember: Battery internal resistance = Delta Voltage (a change) divided by Delta Current (a change)

If you have access to the LeafDD device (like LeafSpy), it calculates mohms every time a hard acceleration is done
from a stop, i.e. a basic 'launch mode'. As I said before, I've been monitoring it for a number of years:

11/20/14 -13,700 miles, 76 mohms per LeafDD, 20 Deg, 73% SOC
11/27 -13,800 miles, 67 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg, 63% SOC
11/30 - 13,900 miles, 56 mohms per LeafDD, 27 deg, 71% SOC
12/2 - 14.100 miles, 55 mohms per LeafDD, 28 deg, 67% SOC
12/16 - 14,500 miles, 89 mohms per LeafDD, 15 deg, 93% SOC
12/27/14 - 14,800 miles, 103 mohms per LeafDD, 11 deg, 24% SOC
3/10/15 - 17,400 miles, 60 mohms per LeafDD, 30 deg, 73% SOC
3/14 - 17, 550 miles, 56 mohms per LeafDD, 32 deg, 47% SOC
4/14 - 19,100 miles, 59 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg. 38% SOC
5/4 - 19,989 miles, 64 mohms per LeafDD, 24 deg. 48% SOC
5/15 - 20,400 miles, 73 mohms per LeafDD, 20 deg. 41% SOC
5/22 - 20,700 miles, 58 mohms per LeafDD, 28 deg. 50% SOC
12/10/15 - 28,000 miles, 90 mohms per LeafDD, 19 deg. 92% SOC
4/5/16 - 32,000 miles, 74 mohms per LeafDD, 24 deg, 55% SOC
5/16 - 33,700 miles,89 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 47% SOC
5/16 - 33.700 miles, 58 mohms per LeafDD, 31 deg, 76% SOC
10/5 - 39,300 miles, 100 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 50% SOC
10/6 - 39,400 miles, 61 mohms per LeafDD, 30 deg, 51% SOC
10/7 - 39,500 miles, 80 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg, 56% SOC
10/15 - 40,000 miles, 71 mohms per LeafDD, 27 deg, 45% SOC
10/30 - 41,000 miles, 74 mohms per LeafDD, 23 deg, 66% SOC
12/26/16 - 43,000 miles, 110 mohms per LeafDD, 13 deg, 77% SOC
6/10/17 - 49,600 miles, 89 mohms per LeafDD, 19 deg, 70% SOC
7/1/17 - 51,000 miles, 62 mohms per LeafDD, 33 deg, 44% SOC
8/15/17 - 53,400 miles, 61 mohms per LeafDD, 35 deg, 57% SOC

As can be noted, the internal resistance has increased, i.e. like a typical battery, as it ages.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12310
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:28 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Okay. Do you think my sensors are placed too close to the core of the cells? Because in my case, the temp only dropped about 4 degrees F in the 45 min drive home (stop and go traffic at the beginning too).


no, my situation was likely more to do with greater delta from ambient. I blogged where I dropped from 126º to 120º in literally a few miles. OAT mid 80's, freeway speed 70 mph. Temps were 116-118º in roughly 15 mins.

That was a 4 charge day

In your case, stop and go on asphalt pretty much means ambient temps are out the window.


It wasn't that bad, dropped to 90F when charging started near sunset, but I hadn't considered that the asphault probably retained a substantial amount of heat and might've been near 100F still.

All the same though, I still saw a considerable amount of temp increase from doing a 27 min QC (because didn't want to make multiple stops with passengers and bigger battery permitted this). The 40kwh leaf can only see a worse situation, as someone is more likely to charge from LBW to 80% with that battery, and taking ~40 mins to do so. Factoring in a best case of 5% charging loss (assuming it's drawing 45kw max), that's ~2.2kw of power that goes into heating the battery pack.


well, "anything" is possible and trust me, I have seen sillier things but lets examine the scenarios and we will ignore the multistate road trip (why anyone would not fly is beyond me unless its simply a road trip drive around which I do do...)

You now have 150 miles of range so you can drive till LEAF is comatose, charge up an hour or drive till you don't feel like driving and stop and pee or get coffee or better yet... Donuts and coffee!. plug in 30 mins or until you are tired of not driving any more. So you gain about 80-90 miles of range back so you might have stopped with 40 miles left so now you are at 120ish and have been waylaid 30 mins plus (detour right?) But lets face it; it does not take 30 mins to pee and get donuts unless its Voodoo Donuts in Portland (one a good day, you might get out in less than an hour!)

So you probably only charged 15 mins and got 50 miles of range so you leave with 90 miles of range. But the reality is... you are only 20 miles from your destination on your planned 260 mile trip. So you spend the day doing what you went for and leave, driving back to this station or even better the next one down the road cause you have enough range and charge up 30 mins while you eat

or you could have hit a station in town and charged while eating, etc.

But that is what range does for you. It gives you options and yeah, some people will camp out for an hour watching that last 3 kwh trickling in for 10 minutes (that is still nearly 20 KW) thinking they did it right then have to stop and pee at the McDonalds 100 miles up the road and walk right past the QC in the parking lot thinking.... "hmmm??"
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:19 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
no, my situation was likely more to do with greater delta from ambient. I blogged where I dropped from 126º to 120º in literally a few miles. OAT mid 80's, freeway speed 70 mph. Temps were 116-118º in roughly 15 mins.

That was a 4 charge day

In your case, stop and go on asphalt pretty much means ambient temps are out the window.


It wasn't that bad, dropped to 90F when charging started near sunset, but I hadn't considered that the asphault probably retained a substantial amount of heat and might've been near 100F still.

All the same though, I still saw a considerable amount of temp increase from doing a 27 min QC (because didn't want to make multiple stops with passengers and bigger battery permitted this). The 40kwh leaf can only see a worse situation, as someone is more likely to charge from LBW to 80% with that battery, and taking ~40 mins to do so. Factoring in a best case of 5% charging loss (assuming it's drawing 45kw max), that's ~2.2kw of power that goes into heating the battery pack.


well, "anything" is possible and trust me, I have seen sillier things but lets examine the scenarios and we will ignore the multistate road trip (why anyone would not fly is beyond me unless its simply a road trip drive around which I do do...)

You now have 150 miles of range so you can drive till LEAF is comatose, charge up an hour or drive till you don't feel like driving and stop and pee or get coffee or better yet... Donuts and coffee!. plug in 30 mins or until you are tired of not driving any more. So you gain about 80-90 miles of range back so you might have stopped with 40 miles left so now you are at 120ish and have been waylaid 30 mins plus (detour right?) But lets face it; it does not take 30 mins to pee and get donuts unless its Voodoo Donuts in Portland (one a good day, you might get out in less than an hour!)

So you probably only charged 15 mins and got 50 miles of range so you leave with 90 miles of range. But the reality is... you are only 20 miles from your destination on your planned 260 mile trip. So you spend the day doing what you went for and leave, driving back to this station or even better the next one down the road cause you have enough range and charge up 30 mins while you eat

or you could have hit a station in town and charged while eating, etc.

But that is what range does for you. It gives you options and yeah, some people will camp out for an hour watching that last 3 kwh trickling in for 10 minutes (that is still nearly 20 KW) thinking they did it right then have to stop and pee at the McDonalds 100 miles up the road and walk right past the QC in the parking lot thinking.... "hmmm??"


I was thinking more like apt dweller who can now consider a leaf, because they can fast charge once a week while grocery shopping. QC'ing isn't just to make a long distance trip.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12310
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:23 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
It wasn't that bad, dropped to 90F when charging started near sunset, but I hadn't considered that the asphault probably retained a substantial amount of heat and might've been near 100F still.

All the same though, I still saw a considerable amount of temp increase from doing a 27 min QC (because didn't want to make multiple stops with passengers and bigger battery permitted this). The 40kwh leaf can only see a worse situation, as someone is more likely to charge from LBW to 80% with that battery, and taking ~40 mins to do so. Factoring in a best case of 5% charging loss (assuming it's drawing 45kw max), that's ~2.2kw of power that goes into heating the battery pack.


well, "anything" is possible and trust me, I have seen sillier things but lets examine the scenarios and we will ignore the multistate road trip (why anyone would not fly is beyond me unless its simply a road trip drive around which I do do...)

You now have 150 miles of range so you can drive till LEAF is comatose, charge up an hour or drive till you don't feel like driving and stop and pee or get coffee or better yet... Donuts and coffee!. plug in 30 mins or until you are tired of not driving any more. So you gain about 80-90 miles of range back so you might have stopped with 40 miles left so now you are at 120ish and have been waylaid 30 mins plus (detour right?) But lets face it; it does not take 30 mins to pee and get donuts unless its Voodoo Donuts in Portland (one a good day, you might get out in less than an hour!)

So you probably only charged 15 mins and got 50 miles of range so you leave with 90 miles of range. But the reality is... you are only 20 miles from your destination on your planned 260 mile trip. So you spend the day doing what you went for and leave, driving back to this station or even better the next one down the road cause you have enough range and charge up 30 mins while you eat

or you could have hit a station in town and charged while eating, etc.

But that is what range does for you. It gives you options and yeah, some people will camp out for an hour watching that last 3 kwh trickling in for 10 minutes (that is still nearly 20 KW) thinking they did it right then have to stop and pee at the McDonalds 100 miles up the road and walk right past the QC in the parking lot thinking.... "hmmm??"


I was thinking more like apt dweller who can now consider a leaf, because they can fast charge once a week while grocery shopping. QC'ing isn't just to make a long distance trip.


not sure there is any evidence that shows short duration heat being a significant cause of degradation. if it was, I would have lost about 7-8 bars by now! Been in the red a few dozen times but been at 9-10 TBs "at least" 100 times....
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:39 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
well, "anything" is possible and trust me, I have seen sillier things but lets examine the scenarios and we will ignore the multistate road trip (why anyone would not fly is beyond me unless its simply a road trip drive around which I do do...)

You now have 150 miles of range so you can drive till LEAF is comatose, charge up an hour or drive till you don't feel like driving and stop and pee or get coffee or better yet... Donuts and coffee!. plug in 30 mins or until you are tired of not driving any more. So you gain about 80-90 miles of range back so you might have stopped with 40 miles left so now you are at 120ish and have been waylaid 30 mins plus (detour right?) But lets face it; it does not take 30 mins to pee and get donuts unless its Voodoo Donuts in Portland (one a good day, you might get out in less than an hour!)

So you probably only charged 15 mins and got 50 miles of range so you leave with 90 miles of range. But the reality is... you are only 20 miles from your destination on your planned 260 mile trip. So you spend the day doing what you went for and leave, driving back to this station or even better the next one down the road cause you have enough range and charge up 30 mins while you eat

or you could have hit a station in town and charged while eating, etc.

But that is what range does for you. It gives you options and yeah, some people will camp out for an hour watching that last 3 kwh trickling in for 10 minutes (that is still nearly 20 KW) thinking they did it right then have to stop and pee at the McDonalds 100 miles up the road and walk right past the QC in the parking lot thinking.... "hmmm??"


I was thinking more like apt dweller who can now consider a leaf, because they can fast charge once a week while grocery shopping. QC'ing isn't just to make a long distance trip.


not sure there is any evidence that shows short duration heat being a significant cause of degradation. if it was, I would have lost about 7-8 bars by now! Been in the red a few dozen times but been at 9-10 TBs "at least" 100 times....


But the apt dweller with his 40kwh leaf QC'ing during grocery shopping, isn't doing a short-duration charge. This would be his weekly charge from 20% to 90%, because he doesn't have charging at home. This use case is most definitely long-duration QC.

Edit: By the way, 150 mile range isn't comatose driving, that's a 2-hr trip to san diego or to visit friends for a day. A QC will be needed for the return trip in case there's no L2 at the destination.

Edit 2: Since this thread is about battery management, my point is that larger batteries encourage people to use the car in ways that would call for longer QC sessions, not shorter ones, ergo the need for better battery management.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

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