ROWEKMR
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:14 am
Delivery Date: 16 Sep 2017
Location: Chicago, IL

Looking to get a Leaf-Newbie Questions

Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:30 am

Hello I have owned a few hybrids for short time and have been driving a plug in Energi for almost a year. I live 14 miles from work mostly highway and barely make it with the plug in. I do charge at both locations but wanted to get something with longer range so I don't have to plug in at work (people don't like it).

I have been looking at some 2013's in the 6-7k range. What should I avoid? What should I look for?
I looked on Nissan website and couldn't find info I need:
How long to charge an empty battery on 120V
How long on 240v?
I read about the Chadmo/Quick Charge charger, how much better is it?
Are the batteries covered for 8 years? If so how long do they typically last. I am in the Midwest so it is hot in the summer and cold in the winter.

What is SOH? SOC?

I see post speaking about bars left and battery replacement. What does it all mean?

Thanks

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7084
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Looking to get a Leaf-Newbie Questions

Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:54 am

https://www.facebook.com/notes/seattle- ... 373291032/ may help.
ROWEKMR wrote:I have been looking at some 2013's in the 6-7k range. What should I avoid? What should I look for?
I looked on Nissan website and couldn't find info I need:
How long to charge an empty battery on 120V

On the order of ~20 hours. http://sfbayleafs.org/news/2013/01/2013 ... ighlights/ says about 21.
ROWEKMR wrote:How long on 240v?

http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit quotes about 4. That's about right. I've never been personally present charging at 240 volts. EVSEs at my work are 208 volts (common commercial power) and the free L2 charging I use appears to be 208 volts. The car will be at full power most of the way but slows down when very near full and does a bunch of bounces in the last hour. Visual aid: viewtopic.php?p=490435#p490435. In that bounce phase, very little energy is making it into the battery.
ROWEKMR wrote:<span>I read about the Chadmo/Quick Charge <a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/?field-keywords=electric%20vehicle%20charger&tag=myelecarfor-20" class="interlinkr" target="_blank">charger</a>, how much better is it?</span>

2013 Leaf S w/charge package and SV and SL come w/6.6 kW on-board charger. That's the max that can come out of wall at level 2.

CHAdeMO DC (usually fast) in the US are generally 25 kW at minimum to a max of 50 kW. There are some Nissan/Sumitomo units that are 44 kW. Leaf will ramp down but even at say 90%, you may still be charging at 8+ kW rate. I have some pics of being at 77% and charge rate still being over 20 kW. I have a 58% pic showing 42 kW charge rate.

You should check http://www.plugshare.com to see if there are near you/where you will travel. As I've posted many times before, I didn't feel it was worth for me to pay for a used Leaf w/CHAdeMO. I don't have time to rehash it all but I found some of my old posts on this.

viewtopic.php?p=487454#p487454
viewtopic.php?p=487997#p487997

ROWEKMR wrote:Are the batteries covered for 8 years? If so how long do they typically last. I am in the Midwest so it is hot in the summer and cold in the winter.

Defects warranty is 8 years/100K miles. Battery (gradual) capacity loss warranty it only 5 years/60K miles. You must be down to 8 capacity bars remaining or less before that expires to be eligible for a free battery. Manuals and warranty booklet can be downloaded from https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/na ... nualsGuide. Warranty terms in https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/te ... ooklet.pdf.

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.
ROWEKMR wrote:What is SOH? SOC?

I see post speaking about bars left and battery replacement. What does it all mean?

SOH is a value shown in Leaf Spy: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4131&p=337560&hilit=soh+old+hx#p337560. People use it in conjunction with AHr, and Hx along w/max # of gids on a full charge to determine battery health/remaining capacity.

SoC = state of charge (how full the battery is).

viewtopic.php?t=13192 - this applies to all 2011 to 2015 Leafs and the 24 kWh 2016 Leaf S. This is also in the '13 warranty booklet.

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/File ... bars_s.jpg is a car down 3 capacity bars, the thin bars all the way on the right. See http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... y_Behavior and my post at viewtopic.php?p=505412#p505412.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6948
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Looking to get a Leaf-Newbie Questions

Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:23 am

You might want to look at the incentives for the Prius Prime in your state. You may be able to afford to lease or buy one, in which case you'd have an EV with 25 miles of range that keeps on going as a plugin hybrid after that.

If you do want a 2013 Leaf, get one built AFTER March of 2013. The early 2013 batteries degrade quickly like the 2011-2012 packs. From 2014 to 2015, the build date doesn't seem to matter.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

ROWEKMR
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:14 am
Delivery Date: 16 Sep 2017
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Looking to get a Leaf-Newbie Questions

Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:58 pm

Thanks so much a lot of good info I'll go through.

How much does range degrade during wintertime using heat ?

My plug in has more range doing city driving vs highway is that the same with the Leaf?

cwerdna wrote:https://www.facebook.com/notes/seattle-nissan-leaf-owners/a-guide-for-buying-a-used-leaf/1100737373291032/ may help.
ROWEKMR wrote:I have been looking at some 2013's in the 6-7k range. What should I avoid? What should I look for?
I looked on Nissan website and couldn't find info I need:
How long to charge an empty battery on 120V

On the order of ~20 hours. http://sfbayleafs.org/news/2013/01/2013 ... ighlights/ says about 21.
ROWEKMR wrote:How long on 240v?

http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit quotes about 4. That's about right. I've never been personally present charging at 240 volts. EVSEs at my work are 208 volts (common commercial power) and the free L2 charging I use appears to be 208 volts. The car will be at full power most of the way but slows down when very near full and does a bunch of bounces in the last hour. Visual aid: viewtopic.php?p=490435#p490435. In that bounce phase, very little energy is making it into the battery.
ROWEKMR wrote:<span>I read about the Chadmo/Quick Charge <a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/?field-keywords=electric%20vehicle%20charger&tag=myelecarfor-20" class="interlinkr" target="_blank">charger</a>, how much better is it?</span>

2013 Leaf S w/charge package and SV and SL come w/6.6 kW on-board charger. That's the max that can come out of wall at level 2.

CHAdeMO DC (usually fast) in the US are generally 25 kW at minimum to a max of 50 kW. There are some Nissan/Sumitomo units that are 44 kW. Leaf will ramp down but even at say 90%, you may still be charging at 8+ kW rate. I have some pics of being at 77% and charge rate still being over 20 kW. I have a 58% pic showing 42 kW charge rate.

You should check http://www.plugshare.com to see if there are near you/where you will travel. As I've posted many times before, I didn't feel it was worth for me to pay for a used Leaf w/CHAdeMO. I don't have time to rehash it all but I found some of my old posts on this.

viewtopic.php?p=487454#p487454
viewtopic.php?p=487997#p487997

ROWEKMR wrote:Are the batteries covered for 8 years? If so how long do they typically last. I am in the Midwest so it is hot in the summer and cold in the winter.

Defects warranty is 8 years/100K miles. Battery (gradual) capacity loss warranty it only 5 years/60K miles. You must be down to 8 capacity bars remaining or less before that expires to be eligible for a free battery. Manuals and warranty booklet can be downloaded from https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/na ... nualsGuide. Warranty terms in https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/te ... ooklet.pdf.

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.
ROWEKMR wrote:What is SOH? SOC?

I see post speaking about bars left and battery replacement. What does it all mean?

SOH is a value shown in Leaf Spy: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4131&p=337560&hilit=soh+old+hx#p337560. People use it in conjunction with AHr, and Hx along w/max # of gids on a full charge to determine battery health/remaining capacity.

SoC = state of charge (how full the battery is).

viewtopic.php?t=13192 - this applies to all 2011 to 2015 Leafs and the 24 kWh 2016 Leaf S. This is also in the '13 warranty booklet.

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/File ... bars_s.jpg is a car down 3 capacity bars, the thin bars all the way on the right. See http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... y_Behavior and my post at viewtopic.php?p=505412#p505412.

ROWEKMR
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:14 am
Delivery Date: 16 Sep 2017
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Looking to get a Leaf-Newbie Questions

Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:59 pm

My current plug in gets 17-23 miles depending on conditions. I rather have more range and pure EV.

LeftieBiker wrote:You might want to look at the incentives for the Prius Prime in your state. You may be able to afford to lease or buy one, in which case you'd have an EV with 25 miles of range that keeps on going as a plugin hybrid after that.

If you do want a 2013 Leaf, get one built AFTER March of 2013. The early 2013 batteries degrade quickly like the 2011-2012 packs. From 2014 to 2015, the build date doesn't seem to matter.

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7084
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Looking to get a Leaf-Newbie Questions

Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:00 pm

ROWEKMR wrote:How much does range degrade during wintertime using heat ?

Since you list Chicago, you should really preheat when connected to "shore" power when possible so that the energy to heat the cabin comes from there instead of the battery.

I've never lived in such a cold place, but I'd say you should plan for no more than 1/2 to 2/3rd of the range being available vs. weather where you have to neither use AC nor the heat.
ROWEKMR wrote:My plug in has more range doing city driving vs highway is that the same with the Leaf?

Yes.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6948
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Looking to get a Leaf-Newbie Questions

Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:03 pm

When the heatpump found on the 2013+ SV and SL is in use alone (above freezing), it uses roughly as much power as the A/C - not much. When the resistance heater is needed as well, that drains more and more range as temps drop. In single digit Fahrenheit weather and colder, almost half the car's power can go to cabin heat...

Most EVs get much more range in city driving than on the highway, and the Leaf is one of them. Highway speeds above 60MPH really reduce range substantially.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

BuckMkII
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Looking to get a Leaf-Newbie Questions

Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:40 pm

Is your 120 V circuit on a 15 Amp breaker or a 20 Amp? The 120 V EVSE that comes with the Leaf pulls only 12 Amps, so it can be used on any 120 V outlet. If you have a 20 Amp breaker, you can buy an aftermarket EVSE that pulls 16 A, which would shorten charging time to 12A/16A = 0.75 as long, so about 15 hours. I think those are about $400.

But how fast are you driving on the highway? For your 30 mile round-trip, you should not need a full recharge unless you are flying. If you are willing to stay under 60 mph, you would be able to recharge in more like 5 to 6 hours with the 12A device, if my gestimate is correct.

Check my math: 30 miles / 4 miles per kWh (should allow for 60 mph and maybe a little climate control*) = 7.5 kWh

120 V * 12 A / 1000 = 1.44 kW

7.5 kWh / 1.44 kW = 5.2 hours

*I did a 50 mile round-trip a couple of weeks ago that was about 12 miles city and 38 miles highway. I drove an average of 55 mph on the freeway and for the whole trip, I averaged over 5 miles per kWh, actually a little better than I get for my usual city-only driving. That was in ideal conditions, though: no wind; dry road; no need for climate control except running the fan on low, which uses almost no power. If you are running the heater and driving through heavy rain or snow, that is going to be a lot worse. Also, my tires are at 40 PSI, which is good for mileage but probably not so good for wet or snowy roads.
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
on 9/29/17: AHr = 55.3; SOH = 84%; Hx = 81.6; ODO = 41,492
bar 12 lost 8/21/17

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