Last Day to Return - Should I Keep It?

I bought a 2015 S from Carmax on Monday. Which gives me until today to return if not satisfied. I like the car very much and would prefer to keep it. But based on reading here, I realized it was crucial to assess battery health. Accordingly, I downloaded LeafSpy and purchased an OBD2 dongle. Here are the stats. These seem to be within reasonable ranges, but my understanding of this is extremely limited at this point.

The battery is currently at 12 bars

Build date: 7/14 (fleet lease in Atlanta 8/14, leased in Chicago 1/16)
Mileage: 18,837
GOM at full charge: 102
SOC: 97.3%
AHr: 56.35
SOH: 90%
Hx: 85.59%
GIDs: 265
kWh: 20.5
Avg. temp: 79.2
Max voltage: 12 mv
QCs: 0
L1/L2: 665

Thanks in advance for any/all comments.

David
Chicago, IL

You didn't give us much info, such does it have the QC package, what was the price, how many miles is your commute, etc. but if your just asking about the battery health, I'd say 90% is pretty good. Sure it could be higher, but I'd suspect most all '14's will be 90% or lower. Again it depends on the price, if they are asking top dollar, it might be worth waiting, trying to find one closer to 100% but at this date you'd probably have to be pretty lucky to find one better.
It also depends on your needs, 90% health on a 24kwh should give you easily a 70 mile range summer and 60 with not much heater use. Note this could drop to 40 miles with constant heat use in a cold climate but then a 100% battery would probably only give you 5 miles extra. Now if that 5 miles is important to you, another reason to keep looking, if your OK with it, I'd say keep it if you like.

Hi and thanks very much for the response.

Additional info:

- no QC package
- price was $11,998
- commute is 11 miles (one way)
- additional use is mostly occasional in-town driving (grocery store, etc).

I am semi-retired, so still make appointments in Chicago and suburbs. These could occasionally require as much as 70 miles round trip. But I would never have more than one of those in a single day. I guess my one concern is that with only L1 charging, I might not be able to do something like that on back to back days?

David

I like my 2015 SV with no QC. It is the main car for my commutes and also when we go anywhere in town. I upgraded my L1 EVSE to do L2 at 12A which is sufficient for me. When you need it, there are plenty of public L2 charging options in Chicago, see plugshare.com. Being free from having to go to stinky gas stations is great.

I have a 2014 SL loaded with tech package. Battery at 82% and 35k miles and I paid a similar price. Just for comparison. I would never trust my car to take me 70 miles on a single charge unless I was on 45mph roads the entire time.

Keep in mind if your 70mi round trip journeys take you on the freeway, you likely won't have enough juice to go that distance. Driving at 65+ mph is going to cut your range way down. A quick charge would help, but 45 minutes on a public L2 should get you there as well.

Thanks all. I am going to hang on to it!

I appreciate the provisos - I do want this to be a relatively easy experience. I'm not wanting to get too much into the details of battery condition and management, besides doing the essential sensible things. So it's important for me to not be overconfident and set myself up for a bad experience. My needs are really very basic and short range 99% of the time.

David

dprendergast said:

Thanks all. I am going to hang on to it!

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Seems to me that you are approaching this with eyes wide open and are likely to meet your needs. My one comment is that I have found L2 charging at home to be a huge asset in my Leaf ownership.

dprendergast said:

...I am semi-retired, so still make appointments in Chicago and suburbs. These could occasionally require as much as 70 miles round trip. But I would never have more than one of those in a single day. I guess my one concern is that with only L1 charging, I might not be able to do something like that on back to back days?

Click to expand...

L1 will work for your daily needs and the occasional 70 mi day, but back-to-back days may be difficult, but not impossible. Assuming summer temps, you add about 50 mi per 12hr night. Since you are semi-retired, you could probably charge even more hours. If full before the 1st 70 mi day, you'd still have "some" battery left when you returned, maybe 20% or so. One "problem" with the L1 cord is that it only provides 1200 W of "heating electricity." If you park outside in a wicked Chicago winter, that won't be enough to pre-warm the car so additional energy will come from the pack. That's not a problem for a short commute, but could come into play for longer drives. If you park in a decent insulated garage, then you'll be fine. Another problem with L1 is that you will need a dedicated (or close to it) circuit, a good, tight receptacle and you don't want to hang the weight of the brick on the receptacle. Otherwise, you're good to go. I've been charging on L1 for over 6 years with no problems, a few back-to-back longish drives, and I've rarely (2 or 3 times) needed to switch to another vehicle.

The best way to deal with preheating drain if you need the car at least a bit warm (like me) is to preheat for just 2-5 minutes while plugged in. That will leave it at 96-98% after preheating.

It also depends on your needs, 90% health on a 24kwh should give you easily a 70 mile range summer and 60 with much heater use.

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This needs to be corrected.

LeftieBiker said:

The best way to deal with preheating drain if you need the car at least a bit warm (like me) is to preheat for just 2-5 minutes while plugged in. That will leave it at 96-98% after preheating.

It also depends on your needs, 90% health on a 24kwh should give you easily a 70 mile range summer and 60 with much heater use.

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This needs to be corrected.

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Corrected
Should have been 60 miles with not much heater use, still stand by my 70 miles with no heater use and summer conditions(with a 90% battery) although I suppose I should have specified not much over 60mph, 70+ really does a number on range as I'm sure you are well aware

dprendergast said:

Hi and thanks very much for the response.

Additional info:

- no QC package
- price was $11,998
- commute is 11 miles (one way)
- additional use is mostly occasional in-town driving (grocery store, etc).

I am semi-retired, so still make appointments in Chicago and suburbs. These could occasionally require as much as 70 miles round trip. But I would never have more than one of those in a single day. I guess my one concern is that with only L1 charging, I might not be able to do something like that on back to back days?

David

Click to expand...

Yeah, in that case you might be looking at needing a public charge depending on how many hours you have for charging and how low the battery is when getting home. Figure about 4 miles of range per hour of charging but that also depends on how efficiently you can drive of course.

Since you'll be staying with Level 1 charging I'd highly recommend installing a new high-quality receptacle using screw terminals (not stab-in). This will help make sure all the connections are clean and tight. If you're not comfortable or familiar with this kind of work I think it's well worth paying an electrician to install the receptacle and they can also make sure the wiring and circuit are up to the long-duration 12 Amps draw that charging will use.

There is also a common type of outlet with stab in type terminals that are actually tightened by the side screws instead of by crappy internal springs. These are good for older smaller outlet boxes. I THINK Leviton makes them. You can tell if an outlet is that type or the undesirable stab-in by sliding a piece of the correct gauge wire into the back, with the side screws loose. If it sticks, it's the bad kind. If it slides ride back out with the side screws loose, it's the better kind.

jjeff said:

You didn't give us much info, such does it have the QC package, what was the price, how many miles is your commute, etc. but if your just asking about the battery health, I'd say 90% is pretty good. Sure it could be higher, but I'd suspect most all '14's will be 90% or lower. Again it depends on the price, if they are asking top dollar, it might be worth waiting, trying to find one closer to 100% but at this date you'd probably have to be pretty lucky to find one better.
It also depends on your needs, 90% health on a 24kwh should give you easily a 70 mile range summer and 60 with not much heater use. Note this could drop to 40 miles with constant heat use in a cold climate but then a 100% battery would probably only give you 5 miles extra. Now if that 5 miles is important to you, another reason to keep looking, if your OK with it, I'd say keep it if you like.

Click to expand...

QC = zero means no chademo port. I wouldn't get one without it. Its simply too convenient and a godsend should you ever need it

Reddy said:

If you park in a decent insulated garage, then you'll be fine. Another problem with L1 is that you will need a dedicated (or close to it) circuit, a good, tight receptacle and you don't want to hang the weight of the brick on the receptacle.

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Car is parked in an insulated garage.

Tell me more, if you don't mind, about why circuit should be dedicated (or close), why brick shouldn't hang on it, and why worry about a "good" receptacle".

I don' t mean to be cavalier - these things intuitively make sense. OTOH, if I don' t do any of them, what am I risking? Right now, 1st week only, I'm pretty sure receptacle is not dedicated, and I'm definitely hanging the brick from it. I'll have to determine later if it's "good" or not-so-good.

:|

Nubo said:

Since you'll be staying with Level 1 charging I'd highly recommend installing a new high-quality receptacle using screw terminals (not stab-in). This will help make sure all the connections are clean and tight. If you're not comfortable or familiar with this kind of work I think it's well worth paying an electrician to install the receptacle and they can also make sure the wiring and circuit are up to the long-duration 12 Amps draw that charging will use.

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I do have a good electrician who has done work in our house over the past several years. Bigger issue is convincing my wife to invest any additional money in this. Might have to wait until next year!

dprendergast said:

Reddy said:

If you park in a decent insulated garage, then you'll be fine. Another problem with L1 is that you will need a dedicated (or close to it) circuit, a good, tight receptacle and you don't want to hang the weight of the brick on the receptacle.

Click to expand...

Car is parked in an insulated garage.

Tell me more, if you don't mind, about why circuit should be dedicated (or close), why brick shouldn't hang on it, and why worry about a "good" receptacle".

I don' t mean to be cavalier - these things intuitively make sense. OTOH, if I don' t do any of them, what am I risking? Right now, 1st week only, I'm pretty sure receptacle is not dedicated, and I'm definitely hanging the brick from it. I'll have to determine later if it's "good" or not-so-good.

:|

Click to expand...

L1 charging is the equivalent of running a space-heater on HIGH continuously for the number of hours it takes to charge. You want to make sure the receptacle is in good condition, not loose-fitting, and all connections have been verified to be clean and tight. Otherwise heat can build up. Not that charging is inherently unsafe, but you do have to respect the amount of power being used.

Hanging the brick from the outlet partly depends on the year. The original L1 unit with my 2012 was heavy, and the plug was a straight-in design. That meant that the weight of the brick tended to pull the plug away from the wall. Later models, I think, switched to a right-angled plug and were somewhat lighter which would help the situation. But I may be mistaken. The only time I looked at my 2015 L1 was when I took it out of the car to store it . But in general I don't like for any significant amount of weight to be supported by a wall plug.

L1 charging is the equivalent of running a space-heater on HIGH continuously for the number of hours it takes to charge.

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Not quite that bad, as most space heaters use 1500 watts as the High setting, but it's definitely like running one on whatever setting draws 1200 watts, with the thermostat locked on the highest setting. And the outlet is by far the most likely failure point in an otherwise sound circuit, because it's the only part that sees physical wear, on the contacts. And a loose fit in the outlet means extra heat, sometimes enough to melt plastic or start a fire.

LeftieBiker said:

L1 charging is the equivalent of running a space-heater on HIGH continuously for the number of hours it takes to charge.

Click to expand...

Not quite that bad, as most space heaters use 1500 watts as the High setting....

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12 Amps is 12 Amps. That's the highest allowable continuous load on a 15 Amp circuit per the electrical code, whether it's a space heater or an EVSE. And it works out to 1440 Watts at 120V nominal. At a more common 125V it's exactly 1500W. I've measured EVSE wall consumption here at 1470 Watts.

12 Amps is 12 Amps. That's the highest allowable continuous load on a 15 Amp circuit per the electrical code, whether it's a space heater or an EVSE. And it works out to 1440 Watts at 120V nominal. At a more common 125V it's exactly 1500W. I've measured EVSE wall consumption here at 1470 Watts.

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You're right. I'm too tired to be posting stuff tonight.

Nubo said:

Hanging the brick from the outlet partly depends on the year. The original L1 unit with my 2012 was heavy, and the plug was a straight-in design. That meant that the weight of the brick tended to pull the plug away from the wall. Later models, I think, switched to a right-angled plug and were somewhat lighter which would help the situation. But I may be mistaken. The only time I looked at my 2015 L1 was when I took it out of the car to store it . But in general I don't like for any significant amount of weight to be supported by a wall plug.

Click to expand...

The plug on my L1 cable is right-angled, yes.

In addition to the possible safety and stress issues, it just looks bad to have the brick hanging like that and the cable on the floor of the garage. I am going to look for an inexpensive hose carrier or other such thing that I can easily mount next to the receptacle.