sciencegirl
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:11 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Apr 2017

Guess-o-meter vs bars help!

Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:00 pm

I'm looking at a 2013 Leaf that has me puzzled..... It's showing 12 bars but only 63miles of range. On the charger it showed that it was 91% charged. Dealer said it will go to 73 on a full charge (smirk and doubtful side eye).

I LOVE this particular car. know, I know....I need to see what kind of data I get using Leafspy, but, is this a deal breaker?

Thoughts?
Last edited by sciencegirl on Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6946
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Guess-o-meter vs bars help!

Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:31 pm

The GOM uses the last few minutes of driving to estimate range, and is so generally useless. You need to look at the small capacity bars right next to the charge bars. If there really are 12 of those, then you should have at least that 60 miles of range, barring tampering. 73 miles is for a new 24kwh Leaf in the real world.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

SageBrush
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Guess-o-meter vs bars help!

Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:51 pm

Range = battery_capacity * consumption_rate
The consumption_rate varies, so it says little about the battery_capacity

UNLESS ...
you zero the consumption_rate meter for one trip, and note the start and end odometer and SoC readings.
Then you can calculate battery capacity. A good 40+ mile drive is needed for accuracy.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Reddy
Posts: 1419
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Guess-o-meter vs bars help!

Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:22 pm

sciencegirl wrote:I'm looking at a 2013 Leaf that has me puzzled..... It's showing 12 bars but only 63miles of range. On the charger it showed that it was 91% charged. Dealer said it will go to 73 on a full charge (smirk and doubtful side eye).

I LOVE this particular car. know, I know....I need to see what kind of data I get using Leafspy, but, is this a deal breaker?

Thoughts?
Take a deep breath and slow down. If they know that you LOVE the car, your sunk. My 2011 with 9 bars shows 80 mi on the GOM when full in the summer. You're probably looking at a 9 or 10 bar car with a reset. Tell the dealer as much and demand to be allowed to do a full range test (charge to 100%, then drive to LBW or even VLBW). At 62 mph, you can check Tony Williams' Arizona test results and compare.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 46.44 AHr; 40,067 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7084
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Guess-o-meter vs bars help!

Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:08 pm

Reddy wrote:You're probably looking at a 9 or 10 bar car with a reset. Tell the dealer as much and demand to be allowed to do a full range test (charge to 100%, then drive to LBW or even VLBW). At 62 mph, you can check Tony Williams' Arizona test results and compare.

Why do you say the former? (Yes, it is possible that it's the victim of a BMS reset.)

OP, where did the car reside before per Carfax and/or Autocheck? What's the build month on the driver's side sticker? How many miles on it? With this info, we can better ascertain whether the # of visible capacity bars and Leaf Spy readings are to be believed or not.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/seattle- ... 373291032/ may help. To elaborate on what Leftie said, http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/File ... bars_s.jpg is an example of a 3 bar loser.

My 5/2013 built used '13 Leaf had all 12 bars when I bought in July 2015 and still does today, but it's getting real close to losing 1 at 48.5K miles. SOH is now around 85 or 86%. Hx is typically around 83.xx to 85.xx%.

Unfortunately, my work and home climate are on the warmer side of the SF Bay Area, but not blazing hot like Walnut Creek, Livermore and Concord.
Last edited by cwerdna on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 4417
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Guess-o-meter vs bars help!

Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:11 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:The GOM uses the last few minutes of driving to estimate range, and is so generally useless. You need to look at the small capacity bars right next to the charge bars. If there really are 12 of those, then you should have at least that 60 miles of range, barring tampering. 73 miles is for a new 24kwh Leaf in the real world.



Yep. I drove up a local mountain and at the summit the GOM decided I had 13 miles of range left. By the time I got back down to the bottom it figured I had 68 miles remaining. If your car can display the battery charge in percent (not sure if 2013 did this?) that's the display to watch, imho. Experience will tell you how far you can go on a percent. LeafSpy display of "Gids" is even more granular of course, but I find the straight-up percentage is good enough for almost all of my driving.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

sciencegirl
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:11 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Apr 2017

Re: Guess-o-meter vs bars help!

Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:46 pm

Thanks so much everyone. Its taking every ounce of willpower not to jump on this car.

The manufacturing date was 4/15/13. It spent two years on lease in Michigan. The last two years were spent in southern NJ/PA area. Not taxing climates for the batteries, right?

Please, please continue to educate me and all 2cents appreciated . This would be my first leaf and I am anxious to be a happy, not regretful member of this community!

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6946
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Guess-o-meter vs bars help!

Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:56 pm

It's unlikely that your capacity reading is wrong, given the manufacture date and previous home. Is this an SV or an S? If an SV or SL, press the blue button on the steering wheel on a full charge and read the lower range estimate figure given on the Nav screen. This estimate is usually accurate, although maybe not right when you start driving. Check it again after a few miles.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

warrenc
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:33 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2017
Leaf Number: 418438
Location: Tacoma,WA

Re: Guess-o-meter vs bars help!

Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:17 pm

You need to test drive the car for an extended period and pay close attention to the % vs. the GOM unless you can get the Leaf Spy data. What are they asking for it, how many miles and what model? Charge package, rear view camera, etc?
You obviously understand that falling for a particular car is not the way to shop for a good deal.
I don't share the opinion of the majority here and elsewhere; I find the GOM to be pretty accurate, considering the data it is working with. Mine goes up and down about 5 or 10 miles depending on how I'm driving or if I've been going up a lot of hills, but generally shows about 75 to 80 miles at full charge with one capacity bar gone.
2013 Leaf SV
Tacoma, WA

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6946
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Guess-o-meter vs bars help!

Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:38 pm

I don't share the opinion of the majority here and elsewhere; I find the GOM to be pretty accurate, considering the data it is working with. Mine goes up and down about 5 or 10 miles depending on how I'm driving or if I've been going up a lot of hills, but generally shows about 75 to 80 miles at full charge with one capacity bar gone.


And can you drive it that far, or almost that far, at normal speeds...?
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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