Cosmacelf
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EV charging info for newbies

Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:05 am

Based on earlier work I did for Tesla charging, I put together a website for all EV charging providing information for people new to the whole EV experience. It's at http://CarCharging.us - let me know if you find any issues/problems. Hopefully it can help people get full use of their EVs.

aarond12
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:42 am
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Leaf Number: 311353
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: EV charging info for newbies

Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:39 pm

The information you have concerning two out-of-phase 120V outlets into a single 240V source is potentially dangerous and should really be removed from your site.

http://carcharging.us/tech/quick240.php

Also, is there a way to get the menus to collapse when you select a different topic? Otherwise, the site seems well done.
2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV ES (lease ended) • 2015 Nissan LEAF S • Tesla Model 3 reserved
Mods: Matte black Juke wheels, LED headlights and accessory lights, horn, CarPlay receiver

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davewill
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Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: EV charging info for newbies

Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:25 pm

I find locking the width of the site to be pretty annoying. Otherwise, it's OK.

P.S. I've always wanted to ask: Did you actually own a Cosmac ELF?

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2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

Cosmacelf
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:31 pm
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Re: EV charging info for newbies

Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:29 pm

davewill wrote:I find locking the width of the site to be pretty annoying. Otherwise, it's OK.

P.S. I've always wanted to ask: Did you actually own a Cosmac ELF?



Why, yes I did. When I was 13. And it was that exact issue of Popular Electronics in your picture that turned me onto it. I didn't wirewrap my own (those instructions came from a Popular Electronics article a few months prior), but I instead bought the PCB board kit from Netronics. I did solder it though and had lots of fun entering in hex programs from the keypad. I eventually built my own punched card reader from 9 phototransistors, a 100 watt light bulb and a wooden guide for the cards. I did this since I had access to the local University mainframe and would run an 1802 cross assembler on it and a small Fortran program that would encode the 1802 machine code onto punched cards. Fun times.

As far as the site design goes, dude, it's hand built html and css, nary a responsive code library in site. What else would you expect from a guy who hand built his own punched card reader :-)

[edit: phototransistors, not photodiodes!]
Last edited by Cosmacelf on Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SageBrush
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Location: Colorado

Re: EV charging info for newbies

Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:33 pm

Nice story -- thanks for sharing :D
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Cosmacelf
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:31 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2013

Re: EV charging info for newbies

Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:34 pm

aarond12 wrote:The information you have concerning two out-of-phase 120V outlets into a single 240V source is potentially dangerous and should really be removed from your site.

http://carcharging.us/tech/quick240.php

Also, is there a way to get the menus to collapse when you select a different topic? Otherwise, the site seems well done.


The menus staying open is a feature not a bug. This way when you navigate the site, the old section you were in is still shown. I had to write special code for that!

The combining 120V for 240V is controversial for some people. I point out how to especially not do it. But using relays is relatively safe. Can you point me to a case where it wasn't safe?

aarond12
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:42 am
Delivery Date: 17 Oct 2015
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Re: EV charging info for newbies

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:43 am

Cosmacelf wrote:Can you point me to a case where it wasn't safe?

My comment was that it is potentially unsafe. Most people have no idea what out-of-phase 120V outlets even mean. The first person that attempts this with an old house with a floating ground or substandard wiring who burns their house down will sue you. My comment was only to reduce your legal exposure. Take it as you will. I am not a lawyer. :mrgreen:
2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV ES (lease ended) • 2015 Nissan LEAF S • Tesla Model 3 reserved
Mods: Matte black Juke wheels, LED headlights and accessory lights, horn, CarPlay receiver

cwerdna
Gold Member
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Re: EV charging info for newbies

Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:23 pm

There are some mistakes. Also, I only have personal experience w/viewing power levels by charging these vehicles via the 208 volt (common commercial voltage in the US) L2 Chargepoint 30 amp EVSEs at my work and the graphs I can see via their web site (example at viewtopic.php?p=490435#p490435) and mobile app. I sometimes plug in cars for other folks at work.

http://carcharging.us/ev/leaf.php amperages are wrong. '11 and '12 Leaf had "3.3 kW" OBCs. IIRC, they can draw ~3.8 kW from the wall at max at 208 or 240 volts. I've pluged in '11 and '12 Leafs on the above EVSEs and they tend to pull ~3.8 kW from the wall, even at 208 volts.

13 amps isn't right. 13 amp * 240 volts = 3,120 watts = 3.12 kW

28 amps may not be right either... '13+ Leafs can come with 6.6 kW OBC. Specs tab of http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit says "6.6 kW onboard charger (6.0 kW output)". I've seen graphs posted here on MNL (one went away and isn't on archive.org either) showing one pulling 6.6 kW from the wall. Since my work's voltage is only ~208 volts, I've seen it draw usually 5.9 to 6.0 kW. It can range actually from 5.7 to 6.2 kW depending on where and other unknown factors (possibly voltage drops in some places as well as variances in input voltage). 6000 watts / 208 volts = 28.84 amps.

It is also incorrect to state "Earlier models had a slower 13A/240V internal charger." '13 to '17 S trim w/o charge package (see specs tab of http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit) come with 3.x kw OBC ("3.6 kW onboard charger (3.3 kW output)").

http://carcharging.us/ev/prius.php should distinguish between the 2012 to 2015 Plug-in Prius and Prius Prime, which I believe began w/2017 model year. 2012 to 2015 PiPs @ 208 volts seem to draw only ~2.1 kW. Prius Primes seem to draw about ~3.x kW. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/110 ... ctric-mode seem to confirm this
The outgoing Prius Plug-In came with an onboard charger rated at just 2.2 kW. To keep up with the demands of charging the larger pack, in about the same time as the previous one, Toyota has at last upgraded to a 3.3-kW one,

Will need to see if I have graphs from a charging a Prius Prime.

http://carcharging.us/ev/volt.php - Gen 2 Volt has a slightly higher wattage OBC at 3.6 kW instead of 3.3 kW. I recall that gen 1 Volts I plug in at work tend to pull ~3.1 kW or so. Gen 2 I believe do end up pulling ~3.3 kW. I need to see if I have graphs from this.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

jjeff
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Re: EV charging info for newbies

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:06 pm

I do like that site but I'm not very excited to see instructions on how to make a 240v plug to 120v socket instructions :shock:
True it is mentioned to label the adapter "only for EV charging" but IMO it's too easy for an adapter like that to fall into the wrong hands with catastrophic results. IMO a better alternative(and what I've done) is to install a 240v plug on your dual voltage EVSE and then when plugging into 120v, use a 120v male to 240v female plug converter. That way if the adapter falls into the wrong hands, the worst thing that would happen is someone would give a 240v device 120v, much better than giving a 120v device 240v :)
I also agree with cwerdna, pre '13 Leafs and '13 and on S Leafs(without charger package) pull a max of 16a @ 208/240v, pre '13 Leafs also only pull a max of 12a @ 120v, not sure about max 120v on '13 and on S Leafs as I don't have one......
I'm also not to excited about the advisement to use 14 gauge for said outlet adapters, in the case of a post '12 6.6kw Leafs, they have the potential for 27.5a @ 120v, something that would surely fry 14 gauge wire :shock: I use 10 gauge wire on all my outlet adapters, 10 gauge is rated for 30a and is safe for all cases with a Leaf.
Again nice site, I personally have built and on occasion use a somewhat unsafe(not using relays) Quick220v device, I do know to unplug the EVSE first to avoid the potential for 120v back feeding through the EVSE to a 120v male plug but as you noted, such a device with relays is really the way to go, especially if there is the chance of such a device falling into the wrong hands. Also not mentioned is the potential(on non-dedicated outlets or circuits where more than one outlet is fed from the breaker) is if just one of the 120v circuits trips a breaker, you have the potential for your EVSE back feeding power to the tripped circuit. Essentially what this does is to put your EVSE in series with all the devices on the tripped circuit, again something that's not a good for either your EVSE or other devices.
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'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
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Cosmacelf
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:31 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2013

Re: EV charging info for newbies

Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:03 pm

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll update the numbers.

As far as the 14 gauge wire thing - AFAIK, the only place I talk about 14 gauge wire is on the Volt/Bolt adapter page which is only used with the 12A/120V EVSE that comes with the car. 12A is the most you can draw through it, so 14 gauge works.

Did I mess this up somewhere, or is it not obvious I'm talking only about Volt/Bolt adapters? I'll take a closer look 'cause I sure didn't mean to imply 14 gauge is good for anything else other than 12A.

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