eyemgh
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:32 am
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2017
Location: Ashland, OR

Re: What should I pay?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:16 am

Lizard Battery...how does one know? It's something I've been searching Dr. Google for, but haven't found.

I just watched a YouTube video of a guy who bought a '13 SL with Premium for $7100. That's what really piqued my interest based on our current "needs." That seems like it's an outlier though.

There's a "14 S with $35k on the local Nissan lot for $8995. I'm sure they'd take $8k. I'd just rather not have an S.

As for negotiating, I'm pretty straight up about my intent.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7181
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: What should I pay?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:17 am

I paid $8300 for an Oct 2013 'Lizard battery' LEAF model 'S' with 22k miles...



Just to avoid confusion: the pack was greatly improved in April of 2013, but we have no evidence that this improved pack is identical to the "Lizard pack" introduced (for one year plus part of 2016 for the S only, sadly) in 2015. There are now 4 generations of packs on the roads, from the fast-degrading 'Canary pack' used from 2011 through March of 2013, to the "pre-Lizard"?? pack made from April of 2013 through 2014 (with a few Lizards possibly being tested at the end of 2014) to the Lizard pack, to the disappointing 30kwh pack that seems to degrade as fast in heat as the 2011 pack.

Ok, I guess that isn't going to avoid much confusion, is it???
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

SageBrush
Posts: 1425
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: What should I pay?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:28 am

eyemgh wrote:Lizard Battery...how does one know? It's something I've been searching Dr. Google for, but haven't found.

Leftie seems to have more granular information than I but manufacture date from 4/2013 or newer is reasonable.

----
So far as I know, auction purchases preclude a battery test. You might have a photo of the capacity bars but that is a crude meter. E.g., '12 bars' can be as low as ~ 85% remaining capacity in these '24 kwh' packs (and emerging information suggests as low as 80% remaining in the '30 kWh' packs.)
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

eyemgh
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:32 am
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2017
Location: Ashland, OR

Re: What should I pay?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:20 am

Well, I have a friend with access to So Cal auction results. Prices are up. Both Leafs and Fiat 500e are going for about $2k more than their lowest prices.

estomax
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:23 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Jan 2017
Location: Seattle

Re: What should I pay?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:48 am

leaf prices seem to have bottomed out a bit and vary a good bit geographically, but you definitely want to check battery condition and not make any decisions before you know the SoH. i would not buy sight unseen, especially if the warranty on the car is on the latter side.

i'm in the northwest and bought my 2013 Leaf SL with premium package and 27k miles in February for 10k, the dealer had it listed for 12.9k. in southern oregon i'd expect you to get similar prices. My car came from California as a lease return.

Marko
2013 Leaf SL Premium
27k, 93% SoH, 2/17
32k, 96% SoH, 6/17
37k, 92% SoH, 9/17

eyemgh
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:32 am
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2017
Location: Ashland, OR

Re: What should I pay?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:13 pm

SoH...How do I determine that beyond just counting bars?

User avatar
DNAinaGoodWay
Posts: 2751
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:43 am
Delivery Date: 03 Dec 2012
Leaf Number: 23156
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: What should I pay?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:41 pm

LeafSpy.

Another good negotiation tool.
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



6.72 kW Array

BuckMkII
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: What should I pay?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:58 pm

eyemgh wrote:I can get a local dealer to buy one at auction for me in So Cal for a fee. Is the savings worth the risk of sight unseen? Anything else I need to know?

I would not buy a So-Cal car at auction, but...

If you are devoted to the idea, you need to know two things. I assume that you can get the VIN before the auction? If so, get a CarFax report. My vague memory is that the real CarFax was slightly more detailed than the free ones I could find, and the details are important.

Thing One: How long between the manufacture date of the car and the date it was sold (i.e the date it had its title issued)? This is crucial, especially in summer. Dealers pretty much always keep unsold Leafs sitting around at 100% State-of-Charge. That is the kiss of death for the battery if the weather is warm and sunny, since the closed windows of the car cause a greenhouse effect that gets the battery (which is inside the car under the floorboards) even hotter. I wonder where it's often warm and sunny? :geek: Oh, yeah, So Cal! :mrgreen: So unless the car was built in fall or winter then sold promptly (a couple of months), or in summer and sold IMMEDIATELY, avoid it like the plague.

Thing Two: Try to figure out where the car lived. Probably, hopefully, it won't be too far from where it was bought or subsequently serviced. If that's somewhere inland and therefore hot, forget it. The battery is probably cooked. If you think it's likely to have been in a cooler area near the ocean, it might be worth the risk.
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
on 9/29/17: AHr = 55.3; SOH = 84%; Hx = 81.6; ODO = 41,492
bar 12 lost 8/21/17

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7193
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: What should I pay?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:22 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
I paid $8300 for an Oct 2013 'Lizard battery' LEAF model 'S' with 22k miles...

Just to avoid confusion: the pack was greatly improved in April of 2013, but we have no evidence that this improved pack is identical to the "Lizard pack" introduced (for one year plus part of 2016 for the S only, sadly) in 2015. There are now 4 generations of packs on the roads, from the fast-degrading 'Canary pack' used from 2011 through March of 2013, to the "pre-Lizard"?? pack made from April of 2013 through 2014 (with a few Lizards possibly being tested at the end of 2014) to the Lizard pack...

I think there's enough evidence to suggest that the 4/2013+ '13 Leaf batteries are NOT identical to the "lizard" batteries that are in '15 Leafs (viewtopic.php?t=17168) or that have been installed as new 24 kWh replacements since that announcement.

Example: GerryAZ in blazing hot Phoenix w/lizard battery still had 11 bars per viewtopic.php?p=499072#p499072 amd viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24433&p=508923&hilit=11+bars#p508923.

From another thread:
As I posted at viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24023&p=496269&hilit=phoenix+contrast#p496269 a pointer to viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995, this guy is in Phoenix.
elec7ric wrote:I got my new 2013 SL (manufactured 5/2013 ) on 9/30/2013. Lost my first bar 5/2015, second bar 9/2015, third bar 5/2016 and forth bar 8/23/2016 (31,400 miles). First 21 months mostly charged L1/L2 to 80% (home and work). My drive was 55 miles round trip with about 75% highway. As capacity started to go away, I had to charge more often to 100%, however, I tried my best to keep it fully charged as little as possible (extreme Phoenix temperatures).

My 5/2013 built '13 that I bought used in July 2015 STILL has all 12 capacity bars and I'm past 49,2K miles. From Leaf Spy, I am getting close to losing 1 bar (SOH at around 86%, Hx at around 83.92%)

Some more background info at viewtopic.php?p=508974#p508974.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

eyemgh
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:32 am
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2017
Location: Ashland, OR

Re: What should I pay?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:54 pm

Two things are coming clear to me, I should give up on the auction idea and Leaf Spy data is critical.

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