How to buy if you're in the boonies...

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eyemgh

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2017
Messages
33
Location
Ashland, OR
Thanks to the "What Should I Pay?," "Does SoH Rule All?" and LOTS of rapid reading, I'm now up to reasonably competent Leaf speed. My problem is, I live in the BOONDOCKS, Ashland, Oregon. It's a beautiful community and a great place to live. It just makes it really challenging to assess cars for sale that aren't close by. I'm comfortable with vetting sellers, histories, condition, etc. I just can't get Leaf Spy data. From what I'm learning, that's a Don't Pass Go collection of information I MUST have in order to evaluate a car. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to evaluate from afar? Thanks! :D
 
My #1 rule for this situation is to assume one less bar than shown on the dash. Thus a car showing 12 bars should be considered an "11 plus a little" car. The one exception would be a late build (4/2013+) 2013 or later Leaf that was in a cool climate and shows 11 bars. That is likely a more or less full 11 bars. Likely, not guaranteed.

Further rules:

* Buy from only reputable dealers with Leaf experience. Bargains can be had from other sources, but when buying long distance you can't afford the risk.

* If the car looks beaten up, avoid it.

* There are now thousands and thousands of flood-damaged cars for sale. If you can't get a "no water damage" clause in the sales contract, don't buy it.

* Make sure the car comes with the OEM charge cable (if you have need of it) and TWO keys. Keys cost about $300 to replace, and have to be programmed. If either is missing, make sure the discount is at least $400 for the key and $700-$1k for the EVSE.
 
Could you make a weekend project of it? There are quite a number of Leafs for sale at any time in the Seattle area, which you can check out on the Carfax reports. Cars that were originally sold and serviced here should have little heat-damage in their batteries. There are moderately priced motels in the Marysville/Arlington area that would put you within fairly easy striking distance of the the dealers in Everett, Edmonds, Seattle and Bellevue, which are target-rich environments (although some, e.g. 405 Motors, seem a little dubious to me, but I didn't ever actually visit there...maybe they just have a few bad Yelp reviews).

If you have a traveling partner and an ICE, I'd try leaving *early* on Saturday, hitting several dealers, then heading back to your top choice on Sunday to negotiate when they open. If it goes poorly after an hour, walk out and go to the second-best car. I may be crazy, but if anyone thinks the tow-eye can take it, I'd be tempted to stretch the range between QCs on the return trip with some towing behind the ICE at the minimum legal speed on I-5, which is what, 45 MPH? Late on a Sunday night that seems like it would be pretty easy.

If you have to travel solo on the bus and rent a car locally for searching, that would make the return a bit of a challenge, not to mention getting up here in time to do much on Saturday (assuming a standard weekend), so I guess that would mean taking an extra day off and staying two nights, not to mention doing an honest QC trip home.
 
Driving the car home may not be an issue, as it should be possible to pay a moving service a few hundred, with that coming from savings achieved by going to a leaf-rich environment.
 
I'm not as concerned about getting it home as I am about assessing them from afar. Making a trip to Portland or Seattle presumes I'll find one at the price I'm willing to pay. It would be easier to guarantee that if I could get a handle on ones I want to drive before I went up there. Without Leaf Spy data though, that's not really possible.

As far as getting it home, is driving from Portland realistic? It's 225ish miles with a robust QC network along I-5. I don't have a good handle on what the distance per QC will be.
 
TonyWilliams did BC2BC in 2012: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=8879 with a pretty poor CHAdeMO network in California at the time (not much in the Bay Area, HUGE gaps between So Cal and Nor Cal, almost nothing north of the SF Bay Area before the OR border, etc.) He was flying thru OR and WA once he arrived in OR due to http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighway.htm. And, he only had the 3.x kW OBC on the '12 since that's all that existed so his L2 charging couldn't be that fast either. Tony lives in the San Diego area. Some folks helped drive his car back the other direction (south).

Please consult range charts at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293 like these
"Use this 93% chart for a one year old or more battery that still has all 12 capacity bar segments.

Use this 82% chart for a battery that has 11 of 12 capacity bar segments."

Those are without HVAC usage on level ground. He asserts the optimum speed for range is 12 mph. The faster you go beyond 12 mph, the less range you'll get. https://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2011/long-term-road-test/2011-nissan-leaf-driving-it-to-the-bitter-end.html achieved 132.0 miles exactly at 35 mph on new battery. Some folks here on MNL have beat that.
 
I wouldn't think you need to go all the way to Seattle to shop; there seem to be scads of them in the Portland area. And, if I'm not mistaken, you avoid paying WA sales tax on a used car purchased in OR. Get one with a QC port and there's no problem driving it to (edit: goofed and said 'Albany' at first) Ashland; there are DCFC stations every 40 miles or so along the way
 
I've heard of Platt Auto as a seller of Leafs in OR. For whatever reason, they're hosted at http://162.243.132.34/ right now. (Google for Platt Auto). They have a list of Leafs for sale. You'd need to look into whether their Leafs are really originally PNW Leafs.

I've also heard of http://www.paramountmotorsnw.com/inventory.asp?showOnly=Nissan in Seattle.

You'll definitely need one w/a CHAdeMO inlet to make the drive in a reasonable amount of time. Without it, and assuming you can stop at a 30 amp L2 EVSE, count on waiting 3-4.5 hours to charge from near empty to almost full. I saw almost full because IMHO, it's worth moving on once charge rate has dropped a lot (e.g. below 3 kW) when near full. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=490435#p490435. If you wait till the end including those 2-3 bounces, that ramp down period until end of bounces is about an hour w/little energy making it into the battery that whole time.
 
@eyemgh I see you've got two threads going...

Now that I know you live in Ashland, purchasing in Portland would definitely be challenging. Eugene is likely going to be your best bet...
 
I wasn't sure if the proper etiquette on this forum. Since all the topics have been related to me, but pretty different, I figured having a desperate thread for a new subject would help future searchers. I hope that's not bad juju. Eugene would be ideal for sure, but I could make Portland work. Thanks!
 
@eyemgh What about this one, in Bend OR?

https://goo.gl/11Rwwr

Based on the original sales sticker, it's an SV with the QC + LED package:

http://cpo.nissanusa.com/nna/?1N4AZ0CP2DC403071

Had a quick look on PlugShare - looks like it might be doable to drive it back home...
 
Same dealership in Bend has a few other Leafs, although they are newer and more $$$

http://www.jimsmolichmotors.net/used-inventory/index.htm?compositeType=used&make=Nissan&model=LEAF
 
I'm floored that they can Certify a Leaf w/ nearly 70,000 miles! Seems like a lot of dough for those miles.

As for the rest, I don't want an S.

If I did, there's a good one right in Medford, 2014 for $8995.
 
eyemgh said:
I'm floored that they can Certify a Leaf w/ nearly 70,000 miles! Seems like a lot of dough for those miles.
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-plugs-electric-leaf-into-certified-pre-owned-vehicles-program says they can't
To qualify for the CPO program, a Nissan LEAF must have less than 60,000 miles, be less than 5 years from its original in-service date, have a clear CARFAX vehicle history report and pass a 167- point comprehensive quality inspection. The vehicle must also have a minimum of 9 bars of battery capacity, out of 12 total, as represented on the vehicle battery capacity level gauge.
Nissan-franchise dealers tend to have high markups vs. used car lots. The CPO warranty doesn't get you really anything other than an extension on the EV system/powertrain warranty (which is originally 5 years/60K from orig. in-service date).
 
eyemgh said:
I'm not as concerned about getting it home as I am about assessing them from afar. Making a trip to Portland or Seattle presumes I'll find one at the price I'm willing to pay. It would be easier to guarantee that if I could get a handle on ones I want to drive before I went up there. Without Leaf Spy data though, that's not really possible.
If you are insistent on only getting the VERY best SOH for that age of car, that would be a problem. OTOH, if you just wanted to be sure you were getting one that was "good enough," i.e. in the top third of battery health for that vintage, or something like that (compared with all US Leafs), then I would think that if you could verify by Carfax that the car did not sit at a dealer for very long between manufacture and purchase (particularly in summer), and that it had been sold and subsequently serviced in the Portland area, it would be likely to fit that description. Dud batteries are mostly going to be in cars that were abused by parking for many months at 100% and/or used in a hotter region. I guess it's possible that someone in Portland could have charged their car to 100% twice a day and hurt it, but hopefully that's unusual.

So, if you could locate two or three likely cars in Portland, then go look at those, I'd bet the chances of being skunked were low. As long as you have more than one dealer with an acceptable car, you can negotiate with the strength of being willing to walk out.

When I bought my car in May, my goal was to get one that was no worse than average without spending much time searching. I'm not actually sure I achieved that, but I'm happy enough! ;)
 
You're going to have to compromise on something, as you seem to want to get a 2013/2014 SV for cheap. That SV in Bend, assuming the battery is decent, is a perfect vehicle to make a low ball offer on. The high mileage is going to scare off your average buyer. I would offer $8500 for that vehicle, if the SOH was in the high 80% range or better.

All other things being equal, mileage is the safest compromise as it's not usually an indicator of battery health. In my mind, it's all about the battery
 
I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a '14 SL with the Premium Package. It's a one owner with 43,000 miles and 12 bars, in a color I can tolerate (anything but Ocean Blue...sorry alozzy :D ). It has been used as a daily 35 mile(ish) round trip commuter, driven by a female professional, in a mild climate. It has been almost exclusively charged at home with only 15 DCQCs. It has a clean Carfax and just got a great report card from Nissan. I'm taking a bit of a risk by not Leaf Spying it, but I trust the seller is being truthful. I'm assuming a SoH of 80% or better and an equivalent AHr since it has 12 bars. We'll come to some sort of "warranty" agreement to protect me from rapid loss suggestive of a reset. I'll have to pay to ship it, but I have a friend in the vintage car business who will bring it up for $300. It'll need tires fairly soon. The price we agreed on is $10k plus he's including an unopened Juice Box Pro 40. I could pay less for an S, but not much. It gets cold enough here that the bit of extra range from the more efficient heater is worth it. Certainly there are similar cars out there for MUCH more. An EV dealer would want between $12k and $13k and a conventional dealer would price it between $14k and $16k. It's more than what I thought I'd have to pay given all the articles on screamin' deals posted about a year ago (the reason why I started the "What Sould I Pay?" thread in the first place was that discrepancy), but given all the prices I've seen (including Fiat 500e and Ford Focus Electric), this one seems like "the one."
 
I'll get the full carfax tonight along with the Nissan records. By resided, do you mean where it lived it's life or are you more concerned about where it originated? Tell me more please. :)
 
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