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neomaxcom

Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
5
A couple of things first. I haven't had a car payment since 1989 choosing instead to buy good cars outright and run them and ultimately trade them for work from folks that need them. Right now, I've got four - did have six - ICE cars in the stable until my wife's car was totaled by a couple of kids who stole a pickup and turned in front of her ... which puts me in the market for a used leaf. I like the idea and recognize the value of the Leaf EV and would like to put gasoline costs in the same category as the car payment.

I've been doing some shopping in the Atlanta area. I've come across a couple of 2013 leaf's of interest. The first is a base S with out QC, 11 bars and 53,000 miles for $6300 less what cash discount I could muster. The other is a nicer 2013 SL, obviously loaded with a level 2 charger added to the deal that I can get for probably $9 grand, maybe a little less (actual car cost $8500). The SL has the nissan battery warranty (called) in effect until April of next year which, considering it is down to 9 bars with roughly 30,000 miles means that it could qualify for a new battery. It is nice and sharp in all other respect with QC, the heat pump heater, leather, navigation, etc. Tires and other attributes are generally equal between the cars.

In a worse case scenario my wife, who is the one burning up the miles, will change jobs to a place 50 miles away with significant freeway travel which would require twice-daily charging/quick charging. I don't think the S, which doesn't have the QC, would be up to the task of that commute, even with 11 bars and only marginal with a new battery, so it doesn't fit that bill. Still, it does provide a tool to make a price comparison as the SL's value is by definition at least $2000 higher.

I.e. a new battery for the S, which might be necessary down the road IF my wife changes jobs, would definitely require a new battery to be reliable for the 100 mile daily commute - in fact it would be problematic to not assume that every other used leaf, save the 2018, would need at least a battery in tip-top condition if not a new replacement. That said, neither using the current commute of 20 miles one-way with charging options at both locales, would absolutely need a battery replacement.

The choice is the $6000 2013 leaf S vs. the SL with its lower capacity battery (and obvious chance it might go to 8 bars by April) ... and the convenience of the upgraded accessories, etc., quick charge and 6/3kw charging capacity being a near $2,000 option alone. The all-around camera, navigation and leather seating options adding more to the value.

As an additional comparison, the SL model is relative rare and the only comparable I saw only three. One was a 2015 SL with 26,000 miles an asking price of $14,000 ... which obviously would not have a new battery. Another was $15988 with 22,000mi and the third was $14,000 with 32,000. The 2013 I'm looking at has 29,900 miles.

The battery warranty on the 2013 SL with nine bars runs out in April ... and mileage is obviously not a factor ... or in just over five full months. It is obviously a gamble whether the car would drop that last bar between now and then. I've order the ELM 327 bluetooth OBD reader (I think it is version 2.1 so that may be a problem) and have not made direct assessments of the battery. The issue was great enough that the owner got a battery report from Nissan showing the nine-bar status and said 'all is well in late August 17).

Still, I've heard that Nissan does consider partial replacements; aka: discounts on replacement batteries which begs the question what factors are helpful in getting that kind of factory support. For instance my wife is a nurse working for the government (psych ward at jail currently and the new job she's seeking 50 miles away is to a hospital for the mentally disabled).

But again, considering a worse case situation of $5,500 for a new battery, the 2013 at an adjusted price of $14,000 is close to breaking even at the dog track.

Or do I have it all wrong and I need to get a buddy in the car business to go to the auctions and get me a 2015 like that listed at auction for $5 grand :) because the prices being pitched are ridiculous.

neomax
 
Too many variables for me to comment.
I can give you my experience earlier this year.
Following the advice of this forum and a buddy with a '13 SV I looked and found a '15 SL with all the extras. It had 30k miles and they would not take $300 off the asking price of 12,500 to make the deal. I spotted a Leaf at the next lot priced at $16,600. It was a certified 2016 S with less than a thousand miles. Twelve bars, LeafSpy showed 93% SOH. I offered them the same $12,500 and they stopped me as I walked out twice dropping the price $2,000 each time. I got it out the door for a bit over $13,000. The S model with the shorter range battery and no QC meets my needs as there is not a place to charge other than Level 2 where I live and drive anyway. Most people would not consider it so they were willing to haggle.
 
None of the options you suggest are optimal and you likely have a bit of time that, if used properly, will pay off. Here's a few thoughts:
1. You don't want your wife drive a Leaf 50 miles to work. It will take hours to charge (not useable for lunchtime driving) and be a royal pain... for which you may well get the blame. Plus she'd need an AVAILABLE Level 2 charger that's ALWAYS working.
2. The sweet spot for purchasing a used Leaf is a 2013 either with the battery close to replacement under warranty OR a 12-13 that's just had the battery replaced.
3. You don't plan on reselling, but if this changes you'll wish you had the fast charging option. This will become more important once charging infrastructure improves. Ditto for premium features.

My experience: Bought a 2012 Leaf 2.5 years ago and just had battery replaced under warranty this week. The wife and I share one car and are semi-retired (no kids)... we seldom drive more that 40 mile in a day and have an L2 charger at home. We loved the care BEFORE the battery was upgraged... will REALLY love it now.

As far as your calcuations, you should factor in the near zero maintenance for the EV vs the ICE. This is likely $thousands over a five year period.

Good luck!
 
It is good that more and more people are getting interested in buying electric cars. However, your situation is not one for buying an EV.

1) You cannot expect to drive a car with 9 bars 100 miles per day.

2) You cannot expect to get a free new battery on an older Leaf.

If I had a 50 mile each way commute, I would only consider a gas car.... Good Luck
 
Calaveras said:
Too many variables for me to comment.
I can give you my experience earlier this year.
Following the advice of this forum and a buddy with a '13 SV I looked and found a '15 SL with all the extras. It had 30k miles and they would not take $300 off the asking price of 12,500 to make the deal. I spotted a Leaf at the next lot priced at $16,600. It was a certified 2016 S with less than a thousand miles. Twelve bars, LeafSpy showed 93% SOH. I offered them the same $12,500 and they stopped me as I walked out twice dropping the price $2,000 each time. I got it out the door for a bit over $13,000. The S model with the shorter range battery and no QC meets my needs as there is not a place to charge other than Level 2 where I live and drive anyway. Most people would not consider it so they were willing to haggle.

You're right and I know that being willing to walk away in any car lot is a powerful negotiating. Having spent a college summer selling at a high pressure dodge dealership eons ago is one of the reasons I actually fully form what I want before entering the fray.

My post is in a sense psychology 101 ... I'm building a range of outcomes in which I can feel justified for being happy even if the worst circumstance happens ... the car I just bought which was adequate for the 20 mile one-way commute is just not up to the task of the 50 mile commute.

And powerserge is right, I wouldn't consider the 13 Leaf with 9 bars for a daily 100 mile roundtrip commute for my wife. Hence the logic that if nine-bar battery didn't die by warranty end (a gamble), what are the criteria for getting a reduced price for the replacement or just grin and bear it. BTW, presumably with access to a level 1 charger and a full eight hour shift - nurses aren't like secretaries ... they don't dress fancy to go to fancy restaurants where wine is served along with appetizers and a car for errands is not needed. It is much more utilitarian, practical existence where being crispy warm in the to and fro; cuddled in leather in a quiet cockpit with good jams playing feels like a luxury contrasts comfortably to the yells, yelps and screams of the clients who are lined up for pill call at a jail.

Then, the question becomes would a 13 SL with a new battery (whether bought outright, free or subsidized) with access to a level 1 charger for eight hours at work and a level 2 charger at home be capable of making it to and fro from a workplace 45 miles away with no drama? My understanding is that is no problem at all and indeed would be an excellent example of how to save money with a leaf.

-neomaxcom

PS: Hollandjw ...That 2013 SL is I'm hoping the one in that sweet spot that lets me win the lottery ... and if I don't ... I've lost maybe a $1,000 which is easily recoverable through reduced maintenance and fuel for an ICE.
 
8 hrs of L1 charging will add about 11 kWh to the pack, a little more than half capacity of a new battery pack.

On that amount of charge, you can drive at least 30 miles (probably more, but depends on commute conditions and elevation gain of return trip). 45 miles would be pushing it...
 
I am very new to this, but man I would feel bad putting my wife in a Leaf to make a 100 mile roundtrip commute. There just doesn't seem to be much margin for error. Maybe a used Chevy Volt? If she could charge at work most of the time it would be mostly all electric miles, but if she couldn't then she would still have a gas engine for backup.
 
slmooreok said:
I am very new to this, but man I would feel bad putting my wife in a Leaf to make a 100 mile roundtrip commute. There just doesn't seem to be much margin for error. Maybe a used Chevy Volt? If she could charge at work most of the time it would be mostly all electric miles, but if she couldn't then she would still have a gas engine for backup.

Actually, I'm looking at putting my wife into a leaf to make a 44 mile RT with the knowledge that she is wanting to leave the job - she's been wanting to for eight months - and get hired on to the job that would have the 100 mile daily commute.

Note, this is in Atlanta which was, until Georgia dropped its 5000 benefit for EVs, was the nation's number 4 market. There are a variety of options for charging involved including level 1 charging at nearby residences, a couple of Nissan dealerships with leaf compatible QC stations on the likely route and the knowledge the car is parked most other times. The Interstate portion of the route is generally relatively flat (one long hill) on the way back and if she's traveling in rush hour, the speeds would not be at the power-eating 75+mph and may include a fair amount of parking lot moments. But again, this job is just a possibility.

That said, the chevy volt is a possibility as well but it is not as well suited to the current commute. Fact is, we have the resources if we chose to get a used volt if she were to take that job ... or even lease a 2018 leaf but because of the tax situation, we would not get the full 7500 federal credit because we don't pay that much in federal taxes. Still, if she had that job right now, there's a volt I've found that we would opt for because we'd be able to swing that with no payments.

Heck, plan A - before the car she was driving was totaled - was to drive it to a commuter bus, take public transport to a point near that location and I actually have a beater van I paid $400 bucks for that I was fixing up to run the five miles to her work and back that would be left there with confidence no one would want to steal it.

I guess (despite my age - I'm semi-retired) I'm not all that freaked about the weaker sex thing; my wife being one whom I suspect is up to and fully capable of taking any kind of challenge. (For instance, it would freak me to try and accomplish a 100-mile two-way commute with a leaf with 9 bars and the thinking assumes that is only feasible with a new battery with certainty as to the charging regime.)

Alozzy ... a workable regime: As far as the top up ... You're topped to 100 percent at home with L2; drive 15 miles to the nissan dealer to top up with L3 in about 10-15 minutes ... and then drive 35 miles to work maintaining a 30+mile reserve - top off at work with L1 for the 50 mile trip back home, you should arrive at the l2 home station with 20+ miles for a cushion regardless of conditions and top up to 100 percent overnight with L2 and repeat.

Another option I've scoped out a 2011 Camry hybrid with good miles (78,000) for about the same as the 2013 Leaf LS... but obviously it has no plug in option.

And none offer the 'gamble' of a free new battery (or lower cost replacement - are used buyers automatically excluded from partial coverage?) and despite the odds against it, the odds are a several orders of magnitude greater than winning the lottery.

- neomaxcom
 
Does she REALLY want that charging regimen *every day?* One hundred miles seems like a pretty brutal commute even before adding in stops for recharging. OTOH, I guess saving at least a couple thou$and a year in gas is some compensation. ;)

Is the L1 at work absolutely reliable? If not, you don't get home unless there are DCQC stations near work on the route back. Definitely get a car with a QC port. Also a 6.6 kW OBC.

Partial credit for battery replacement may be a thing of the past.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24800
 
Your wife will run into situations where the charging infrastructure will be out of order. As much as we would love for it to work for you, for a 100 mile commute a Prius or other hybrid may be the best option at the moment. Maybe in a few years you can get a cheap Bolt.
 
A Chevy BOLT would work great if you could swing the payment or 2018 Leaf. However, in the end if you can't swing that, I hate to see you go to a plugin hybrid but... maybe you have no choice. A Tesla Model 3 would be way too long of a wait probably for you.
 
Mr. Neomaxcom,

Your posts sound like you and your wife are adventurous and self-sufficient people. However you seem hell-bend on getting a Leaf, and expecting your wife to make a daily commute which involves multiple charging stops and a hours of extra commute time (while you wait for the car to charge).

1) Although you may be used to getting a "beater car", you cannot expect that a "beater Leaf" will work on long distance driving. Heck, I cant imagine driving 100 miles a day commute even with my comfy Cadillac. You typically buy a car that will make your travel easier and quicker. However, your plan (even overlooking other's suggestion of getting a Volt) is not realistic... And may I say... Foolhardy.

2) Your plan for charging is erroneous. You cannot start your trip at 100%, drive 15 miles, and then quick charge back up to 100% You will kill the battery.

3) You talk about different options on the car, when the basic issue is that you need a car for long distance driving. Different models, options, and getting "free" batteries means nothing if the car is not made for the use intended. It is like wanting to bicycle 20 miles per day as a commute... You MAY be able to do it, but you cannot expect to make the sacrifice daily. You are trying to stuff 20 lbs. of tomatoes into a 10 pound bag...
 
powersurge said:
Mr. Neomaxcom,

Your posts sound like you and your wife are adventurous and self-sufficient people. However you seem hell-bend on getting a Leaf, and expecting your wife to make a daily commute which involves multiple charging stops and a hours of extra commute time (while you wait for the car to charge).

1) Although you may be used to getting a "beater car", you cannot expect that a "beater Leaf" will work on long distance driving. Heck, I cant imagine driving 100 miles a day commute even with my comfy Cadillac. You typically buy a car that will make your travel easier and quicker. However, your plan (even overlooking other's suggestion of getting a Volt) is not realistic... And may I say... Foolhardy.

2) Your plan for charging is erroneous. You cannot start your trip at 100%, drive 15 miles, and then quick charge back up to 100% You will kill the battery.

3) You talk about different options on the car, when the basic issue is that you need a car for long distance driving. Different models, options, and getting "free" batteries means nothing if the car is not made for the use intended. It is like wanting to bicycle 20 miles per day as a commute... You MAY be able to do it, but you cannot expect to make the sacrifice daily. You are trying to stuff 20 lbs. of tomatoes into a 10 pound bag...

Actually, the discussion here is quite valuable and its purpose, as stated in the topic headline ...was to test my logic. Hence, I appreciate the devil's advocacy as the whole point was intended to evoke any protests of foolhardiness or confirmation bias on my part.

What I gather is that the Leaf would more than accomplish the current 19-mi one-way commute primarily on back roads where the top speed limit ranges between 35 and 50mph maximum. Even an older leaf with a diminished capacity battery would likely do commute with range to spare.

BUT ... and this was always the case ... a 50 mile one-way commute (100 mile round trip) - which frankly is a commute I would not even consider for myself EVER - would be beyond the limits of the a 2011-2017 leaf even with a new battery (point 2 above.) That commute would require at least a higher range EV like the new 2018 150 mile Leaf or the 238-mile Bolt - but as neither are available as a highly depreciated used car; a plug-in or conventional hybrid seems the only option.

The good news on that is that a typical chevy volt's range would just about cover the 38 mile current commute with all electric travel making this almost as good a solution for the short term as well filling the bill infinitely better if she changes jobs.

Thank you to all those who contributed their thoughts to this. For the record, I wouldn't have even asked if I were devoid of doubts.

- neomaxcom
 
neomaxcom said:
... What I gather is that the Leaf would more than accomplish the current 19-mi one-way commute primarily on back roads where the top speed limit ranges between 35 and 50mph maximum. Even an older leaf with a diminished capacity battery would likely do commute with range to spare.

BUT ... and this was always the case ... a 50 mile one-way commute (100 mile round trip) - which frankly is a commute I would not even consider for myself EVER - would be beyond the limits of the a 2011-2017 leaf even with a new battery (point 2 above.) That commute would require at least a higher range EV like the new 2018 150 mile Leaf or the 238-mile Bolt - but as neither are available as a highly depreciated used car; a plug-in or conventional hybrid seems the only option....
I think that's a fair summary. For comparison, I have a 9-bar 2011 Leaf that is perfectly acceptable for 40-50 mi under mixed 35-65 mph speeds. My limits are tested when temps are below 10 F (not a problem in Atlanta). If you are only considering the 40 mi RT commute, I'd definitely go with the 2013 SL, drive the $hit out of it and hope for a new battery under warranty by April. Oh, that "style" of driving would be FULL acceleration at every stop light, full regen at every stop, lots of stop & go, 75 mph on the freeway, charging to 100% every chance you get, DCQC twice a day (or more if possible), lots of weekend trips to the DCQC, etc. Heck, I still recommend that you get the 2013 SL because you cannot accurately predict what the future will be. Your commute may stay at 40 mi RT or may not. The 100 mi RT commute might include a 240 V Level 2 charging at work. Also, there's talk of eliminating the $7500 tax credit on new EVs, which will make new EVs more expensive and may generate a higher demand on used EVs (hence possibly higher prices.... or not). Who knows what will happen? If the new job and commute is a given, then all bets are off, and you need to plan on something other than a used Leaf.
 
Neomaxcom here with an update.

I found a nice Chevy Volt Premium with just over 50000 mi that avoids all the aspects of range anxiety and will be able to provide a pure electric commute at the current job if we can find a place to charge there and, with the addition of a 220v level 2 charger at home, very little use of the gas power range extender. The car is nice and fits the bill and also allowed me to do business with an advertiser on my site. As far as the deal, I got it for about $500 under the Edmund's private party price for the car which had been detailed to like new condition at the new car dealer. They had the car priced at $400 over the dealer price Edmund's established so it was a good deal.

That said my wife notes my jealousy at her having the 'tech' green car and while she's happy with it and appreciates its 'green-ness' (she is the driver of the household recyclable efforts), she's just not as interested in cars in general and would have been happy with a Corolla that gets 35mpg. That said she's being quite generous in letting me use the car on her days off.

Still, I currently have a small fleet of ICE vehicles that I acquired on the personal judgement that three or four 'cheap cars' are, in aggregate less expensive and more reliable than one new more expensive one. Given that the fleet will assuage any range anxiety - assuming they can make the trip without breaking down :) - I figure that even the range on a deprecated Leaf with seven bars might serve my local needs of running to the store and maybe to town with a typical round trip of most of my travels being under 30-35 miles.

How much range does a Leaf with a seven or eight bar battery have? I would think they would reliably be able to travel at least 50 miles between charges.

The second question is what is a 9 bar or even 8 or 7 bar out of warranty Leaf worth? What I've seen the body and interiors are probably just fine as well as the running gear and the car might come across as a real clean used car at average or even clean condition. But with the $5500-6000 cost of a replacement battery that has to be factored into the cost, as at 9 bars it is imminent and at 8 or 7 or even 6 bars, the car is in need of a replacement because its utility is becoming increasingly restricted. I mean if an ICE car needed a new engine and transmission, you could purchase it for a song even if the rest of the car was neat as a pin.

How common are these restricted utility leaf's? I think they are more common than most folks realize.

I've seen a lot of 10-11 bar cars and a couple of nine-bar cars like the 2013 SL I mentioned earlier. I recently spied on Craigslist in Atlanta, a 7-bar leaf 2012 SV that the guy was asking $5800 for. I asked for the VIN as I wanted to call nissan to see if it was still under warranty and the guy was just not aware. He did not reply and the listing is now gone. Notably, none of those seeking to sell these cars seem to be very forthcoming in regard to the condition of the battery in their particular leaf's. Often, the only mention is the photo of the dash display and I've seen one 'dealer' ad in which the only dash display had the entire display photoshopped to black, I assume to disguise the facts.

I saw another one with what appeared to be 8 bars on a 'dealership' lot ... it was a chain of dealerships, BTW and while this particular dealer wasn't a Nissan store, there are affiliated stores. Anyway, this particular dealer's used car lot offers somewhat attractive 'no-haggle' pricing. I emailed them a lengthy analysis of their car suggesting that with eight bars it must be out of warranty and the battery would need replacing and wondering if they would come off the 'edmunds private seller' level pricing. They blew me off responding they offer no-haggle pricing.

I've also looked at places like copart.com auctions which offer bent Leafs at auction on an as-is basis. Without knowing how the leaf is put together, I'm reluctant to look seriously at these cars, many of which are noted to run and drive but seem to have damage at the rear or front. Of course copart never shows the battery health bars. For instance, what is the likelihood of battery damage on a leaf that has been re-ended or even flooded but showing power up? I get from the few stories I've read about battery replacement that some proprietary programming has to be done at a Nissan dealership on a replacement battery in a best case scenario. Has anyone salvaged a battery, say from a wrecked 2015 for replacement in a 2012?

Anyway, I'm kinda still in the market for a leaf but as my wife's situation is now solved, I can wait and watch and choose the best deal.

neomaxcom
 
neomaxcom said:
Neomaxcom here with an update.

I found a nice Chevy Volt Premium with just over 50000 mi that avoids all the aspects of range anxiety and will be able to provide a pure electric commute at the current job if we can find a place to charge there and, with the addition of a 220v level 2 charger at home, very little use of the gas power range extender. The car is nice and fits the bill and also allowed me to do business with an advertiser on my site. As far as the deal, I got it for about $500 under the Edmund's private party price for the car which had been detailed to like new condition at the new car dealer. They had the car priced at $400 over the dealer price Edmund's established so it was a good deal.

That said my wife notes my jealousy at her having the 'tech' green car and while she's happy with it and appreciates its 'green-ness' (she is the driver of the household recyclable efforts), she's just not as interested in cars in general and would have been happy with a Corolla that gets 35mpg. That said she's being quite generous in letting me use the car on her days off.

Still, I currently have a small fleet of ICE vehicles that I acquired on the personal judgement that three or four 'cheap cars' are, in aggregate less expensive and more reliable than one new more expensive one. Given that the fleet will assuage any range anxiety - assuming they can make the trip without breaking down :) - I figure that even the range on a deprecated Leaf with seven bars might serve my local needs of running to the store and maybe to town with a typical round trip of most of my travels being under 30-35 miles.

How much range does a Leaf with a seven or eight bar battery have? I would think they would reliably be able to travel at least 50 miles between charges.

The second question is what is a 9 bar or even 8 or 7 bar out of warranty Leaf worth? What I've seen the body and interiors are probably just fine as well as the running gear and the car might come across as a real clean used car at average or even clean condition. But with the $5500-6000 cost of a replacement battery that has to be factored into the cost, as at 9 bars it is imminent and at 8 or 7 or even 6 bars, the car is in need of a replacement because its utility is becoming increasingly restricted. I mean if an ICE car needed a new engine and transmission, you could purchase it for a song even if the rest of the car was neat as a pin.

How common are these restricted utility leaf's? I think they are more common than most folks realize.

I've seen a lot of 10-11 bar cars and a couple of nine-bar cars like the 2013 SL I mentioned earlier. I recently spied on Craigslist in Atlanta, a 7-bar leaf 2012 SV that the guy was asking $5800 for. I asked for the VIN as I wanted to call nissan to see if it was still under warranty and the guy was just not aware. He did not reply and the listing is now gone. Notably, none of those seeking to sell these cars seem to be very forthcoming in regard to the condition of the battery in their particular leaf's. Often, the only mention is the photo of the dash display and I've seen one 'dealer' ad in which the only dash display had the entire display photoshopped to black, I assume to disguise the facts.

I saw another one with what appeared to be 8 bars on a 'dealership' lot ... it was a chain of dealerships, BTW and while this particular dealer wasn't a Nissan store, there are affiliated stores. Anyway, this particular dealer's used car lot offers somewhat attractive 'no-haggle' pricing. I emailed them a lengthy analysis of their car suggesting that with eight bars it must be out of warranty and the battery would need replacing and wondering if they would come off the 'edmunds private seller' level pricing. They blew me off responding they offer no-haggle pricing.

I've also looked at places like copart.com auctions which offer bent Leafs at auction on an as-is basis. Without knowing how the leaf is put together, I'm reluctant to look seriously at these cars, many of which are noted to run and drive but seem to have damage at the rear or front. Of course copart never shows the battery health bars. For instance, what is the likelihood of battery damage on a leaf that has been re-ended or even flooded but showing power up? I get from the few stories I've read about battery replacement that some proprietary programming has to be done at a Nissan dealership on a replacement battery in a best case scenario. Has anyone salvaged a battery, say from a wrecked 2015 for replacement in a 2012?

Anyway, I'm kinda still in the market for a leaf but as my wife's situation is now solved, I can wait and watch and choose the best deal.

neomaxcom

Congrats on the wife's Volt. It's a very nice car and I'm sure she'll be pleased with it - I have a 2014 Volt as well. If I had sprung for a Premium loaded Volt, my situation would be different and I'd be driving that daily instead of my Leaf. I've found the creature comforts of heated wheel and seats are too nice to pass up!

There is a battery capacity post that someone will probably link to soon. Your range in winter in an 8 bar pre 2013 will be around 40 as temperatures drop without a heat pump. As for used values, I've found it helpful to browse CA Craigslist postings to find pricing closer to true for cars with degraded batteries. There seems to be a price "floor" around $5000 regardless of battery condition, or there was when subsidized battery replacement for 2011-2012 was a thing.
 
Congratulations on getting the Volt. I think that is a good choice since your wife's commute situation could change. To answer your question about range with battery degradation: I made my 52-mile round trip (26 each way) with ice cold A/C when my 2011 was down to 8 capacity bars before Nissan replaced the battery, but there was almost no charge left when I got home each day. I would not have been able to use heat and make my commute in the winter.

About salvage LEAFs: There are some threads about replacing traction batteries so I won't go into detail. I would stay away from one that had been flooded because the battery case has pressure/vacuum relief vents so water could get in if it was submerged for extended time. I drove my 2011 out of the intersection after the crash and it was technically repairable, but the other driver's insurance company declared it a total loss because they thought it would cost them less than repairing it. I contemplated buying it back and converting it to a small pickup, but the insurance company storage yard trashed the interior and damaged the front and underside by handling it with a large fork lift. It would still power up normally when I looked at it on the storage lot, but I could not be certain that there was not hidden damage from being handled by forklift. The front of the car was damaged by the forks and the interior was covered with grease and dirt so I gave up the idea of buying it back.
 
I think the Volt is the right answer. But I was going to comment that I charge at 12A 240v, and I add about 10 miles’ range per hour of charge, up to 80% SOC. If someone works an 8.5-hour shift, then I would guess they could add half of that trickle-charging (5 miles’ X 8.5 hours = 42 miles), if they weren’t charging over 80% SOC. Obviously, no going out for lunch, or stopping even once on the way for shopping (which means no fun, and a wasted trip later).

So yeah, the Volt is a better answer.
 
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