RonDawg
Posts: 2715
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Used leaf for High School commuter car?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:05 pm

BuckMkII wrote:When most of the excess weight is battery under the seats, not steel in front of you, I think that's a fallacy. The crash test data isn't too bad, but I was worried from the start about the parking brake lever poised right in front of my left shin, and the offset crash results bear that out:

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicl ... hback/2014

The Leaf is no Mercedes or Volvo!


The only IIHS test the Leaf scored poorly in was the Small Frontal Overlap test. And for that matter, so did quite a few high end cars at the time the IIHS first did such testing, including the Mercedes C-Class, so the Leaf isn't necessarily an outlier for that time period.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicl ... sedan/2012

https://www.reuters.com/article/autos-s ... TA20120814

EuroNCAP gives the Leaf its highest rating of 5 stars: https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/nissan/leaf/10939
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

BuckMkII
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Used leaf for High School commuter car?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:16 pm

Yes, and a friend of mine got horribly injured in just such a crash (on a 30 mph street) a few years ago when some d-bag crossed the center line. Broken femur AND broken pelvis. They bought a big Volvo wagon after that. Those incidents are no joke and it's a fairly common type of crash. Nissan should try to do better.

I don't know about the Euro ratings, but I believe in the US ratings, cars are rated against other cars of similar size. A small car that gets a good rating is not as good as a big car that gets an equal rating.
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
on 9/29/17: AHr = 55.3; SOH = 84%; Hx = 81.6; ODO = 41,492
bar 12 lost 8/21/17

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7402
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Used leaf for High School commuter car?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:51 pm

But, in the last month as "winter" weather (Seattle winter, so you know, NOT really winter), my range has tanked due to using heat, defogging (not optional!) and lights and wind and rolling on wet road, which apparently all matters although you never notice it with an ICEV.


You need to avoid using both the heat and A/C at the same time - that's what's hurting your range, because the resistance heater is running as well. Let the heatpump work in whichever of the two modes is better at the time, and range will be better. You can also alternate them every 10-15 minutes or so.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

powersurge
Posts: 768
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Used leaf for High School commuter car?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:44 am

PS - in the winter you are forced to use the heat and a/c to defrost and heat the interior.

Anyway, as a high school commuter car, I think the crash tests are not realistic. Those pictures were of a car that took a slice out of the area of the headlight. ANY CAR will take a bad hit there because there is only front bumper, a flimsy fender, and the wheel and suspension to absorb the hit. There is no structural strength at the left and right edges on any car.

What I am saying, is that I will have no problem having my children drive the Leaf.

BuckMkII
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Used leaf for High School commuter car?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:06 am

powersurge wrote:ANY CAR will take a bad hit there because there is only front bumper, a flimsy fender, and the wheel and suspension to absorb the hit. There is no structural strength at the left and right edges on any car.

No, there are big differences here. A really snub-nosed car like a Leaf is at a big disadvantage. Compare it to a Subaru Impreza, which gets a GOOD rating in a small overlap front crash. The Subbie is otherwise about the same size, but it has a huge amount of additional structure out there. There is some steel in that bodywork that is not insignificant. The Leaf gets a POOR rating. Not Acceptable. Not Marginal. Poor, because you have all the extra momentum of the battery under the seats, and nothing out there to crumple and absorb the work of slowing that down. It's really kind of a thing.
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
on 9/29/17: AHr = 55.3; SOH = 84%; Hx = 81.6; ODO = 41,492
bar 12 lost 8/21/17

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7402
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Used leaf for High School commuter car?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:01 pm

Cars with shorter noses can have impact absorbing plastic foam filling the nose area. That would be the logical fix for the Leaf.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1495
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Used leaf for High School commuter car?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:22 pm

Because of the weight of the battery under the center of the car and energy absorbing crush zone at the back of the car I hardly felt the impact when my 2011 was rear ended by a 3/4-ton four wheel drive Diesel pickup that failed to stop for the red light (I was already stopped and waiting). I was even able to drive the car out of the intersection to a safe place to park. Most cars of all sizes performed poorly when the IIHS first came up with the minimal overlap offset frontal crash so I am not concerned about that issue.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

RonDawg
Posts: 2715
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Used leaf for High School commuter car?

Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:35 am

BuckMkII wrote:Yes, and a friend of mine got horribly injured in just such a crash (on a 30 mph street) a few years ago when some d-bag crossed the center line. Broken femur AND broken pelvis. They bought a big Volvo wagon after that. Those incidents are no joke and it's a fairly common type of crash. Nissan should try to do better.


BuckMkII wrote:The Leaf gets a POOR rating. Not Acceptable. Not Marginal. Poor, because you have all the extra momentum of the battery under the seats, and nothing out there to crumple and absorb the work of slowing that down. It's really kind of a thing.


Looking at your signature line, apparently the Leaf's safety record is not enough of a concern to dissuade you from purchasing one long after its IIHS Small Overlap results were published.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

BuckMkII
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Used leaf for High School commuter car?

Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:45 am

RonDawg wrote:Looking at your signature line, apparently the Leaf's safety record is not enough of a concern to dissuade you from purchasing one long after its IIHS Small Overlap results were published.

My friend's crash was several years ago, and they moved to another state soon after, so that became something of "out of sight, out of mind." I did not actually think of looking up the IIHS results when I was shopping for the Leaf.

In any case, there were not really any other EV models I was considering. My daughter was lobbying hard to get an EV because she considers herself something of a climate activist. Had I looked at the IIHS data before buying how would I have ruled on the small risk of a catastrophic crash that will immediately change your life vs. long-term risk of our small personal contribution to climate change? Hard to say.

After the fact, my response is to drive a bit more defensively and hope to get lucky for the maybe eight years we'll keep this car until it is ready to be scrapped.
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
on 9/29/17: AHr = 55.3; SOH = 84%; Hx = 81.6; ODO = 41,492
bar 12 lost 8/21/17

powersurge
Posts: 768
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Used leaf for High School commuter car?

Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:52 am

FIGHTING CLIMATE CHANGE - as a reason to get a Leaf is pure BS. The world couldn't care a rat's arz if you drive an ev. There are millions in third world countries that are buying polluting cars and mopeds. One volcano that blows negates billions of gallons of saved gas.

Truth is that yes, the Leaf has a weak spot. Yes, it is still a car that I and my family will continue to be driving. Every step you take every day is dangerous. Let's not get on our soap box to point out all the fallibilities of the Leaf. Yes, the Leaf is a great first car for a High Schooler...... But they will not get mine out of my hands..... Yet!!!1

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