wtdedula
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Leaf moves forward when car in FWD and begin to release brake pedal - suggestions/recommendations ?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:10 pm

Hi all;
I've had my used 2015 Nissan Leaf Model S for a few months and I discovered an annoying problem (annoying to me, anyway) that I didn't seem to have with my gasoline car that I just got rid of. Can you confirm this is normal and let me know what you do to prevent it in the future ?

Quite simply with my car in "Forward" while stopped at a red light, I have caught myself starting to go forward even though my foot is on the brake but apparently, I let off pressure a little bit without realizing it. Fortunately, I caught myself going forward each time and immediately put more pressure on the brake so never got in a fender bender. I am asking for advice in order to avert potential problems in the future.

Is this normal and if so, what do you do to prevent this ? Is it advisable to put the car in park every time when parked for a red light ?

Ideally, it would be nice if the car would only start moving only when pressure was applied to the accelerator pedal and/or would stop if any amount of pressure as applied to the brake pedal, even slight pressure.

Tim

cwerdna
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Re: Leaf moves forward when car in FWD and begin to release brake pedal - suggestions/recommendations ?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:24 pm

Sounds normal to me. Leaf has forward and reverse creep like cars w/automatic transmissions. Did you not drive cars w/automatic transmissions before?

Toyota included creep on the Prius even though it doesn't have an automatic transmission nor a torque converter. Search https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2003-0 ... -12051.htm for "Safety Importance of Creep Force in Cueing the Driver--Creep Force in Reverse". http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/p ... kfarm.html summarizes it as "NHTSA/DOT starter interlock and transmission safety standards NPRM for hybrids, that explains the whole rationale about "creep" force and directional cueing for a driver. "

viewtopic.php?p=381216#p381216 has another good quote.

viewtopic.php?p=381024#p381024 is what happens when you put out a car that isn't a manual but has no creep.
wtdedula wrote:Ideally, it would be nice if the car would only start moving only when pressure was applied to the accelerator pedal and/or would stop if any amount of pressure as applied to the brake pedal, even slight pressure.

How many car models w/automatic transmissions with torque converters do this?

For the latter, could you imagine how herky-jerky driving would be if you couldn’t modulate the brake pedal?
wtdedula wrote:I am asking for advice in order to avert potential problems in the future.

You should fully depress the brake pedal when at stop lights (or at least enough to keep the car stopped). Otherwise, shift to neutral or park. This is just like virtually every car w/an automatic transmission.
Last edited by cwerdna on Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wtdedula
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Re: Leaf moves forward when car in FWD and begin to release brake pedal - suggestions/recommendations ?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:32 pm

That's interesting;
I drove gasoline cars previously and never noticed a problem. Not sure why I'm just noticing a problem now. Perhaps I would have more cues when creeping like engine noise which I don't have now. This is one thing that comes to mind.

Tim

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Re: Leaf moves forward when car in FWD and begin to release brake pedal - suggestions/recommendations ?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:12 pm

I believe the Bolt?? allows you to set if you want creep or not, for sure not the Leaf nor a Prius.
Personally I like creep, not super strong like some ICE vehicles I've driven (Ford Freestyle for one) when you let go of the brake and the car speeds up a ton, I'd guess you could do 20mph with not touching the accelerator pedal :x
and I'm not talking about a very high idle RPM, just the normal <1000 RPM.
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cwerdna
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Re: Leaf moves forward when car in FWD and begin to release brake pedal - suggestions/recommendations ?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:22 pm

I believe you're correct about Bolt.

'18 Leaf when you have e-Pedal engaged disables forward creep. Forgot to check if it disables reverse creep. I believe all Teslas Model S and newer let you turn creep on/off.

I generally like creep, for the directional cueing aspect.

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brotherjethro
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Re: Leaf moves forward when car in FWD and begin to release brake pedal - suggestions/recommendations ?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:06 pm

wtdedula wrote:That's interesting;
I drove gasoline cars previously and never noticed a problem. Not sure why I'm just noticing a problem now. Perhaps I would have more cues when creeping like engine noise which I don't have now. This is one thing that comes to mind.

Tim


Creep mode is a little bit different in the Leaf than in a gas powered car with an automatic transmission...

In an automatic car, if the transmission is in gear, there is always some torque trying to move you forward (or backwards). In an electric car, you can imagine how wasteful this would be, so the motor only pushes when you let off the brake "enough". When the brake is fully depressed, there is no torque.

This sounds good, but I've found that when you're trying to move very carefully just an inch or so, you start to notice the exact point at which the torque comes on -- and at least in my car, the balance between the brake and the motor at that point is a little motor-heavy, meaning that you either move too fast or apply enough brake that you stop again.

I haven't ever looked at the brake switch, but I suspect it has at least two levels -- one to turn on the brake lights, and another which requires a bit more effort, which signals the computer to stop creeping. If so, it is possible that second one is adjustable. I may go have a look!
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GlennD
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Re: Leaf moves forward when car in FWD and begin to release brake pedal - suggestions/recommendations ?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:35 am

I have had it both ways. My eGolf had no creep and my B250E has creep built it. I personally prefer the B250E but some here hate the creep.
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Re: Leaf moves forward when car in FWD and begin to release brake pedal - suggestions/recommendations ?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:34 pm

I prefer the creep. It reminds you to keep your foot on the brake, and prevents you from rolling backward when stopped on a hill. Much easier than when driving with a manual transmission and having to learn how to work the gas, brake, and clutch together to keep from rolling backwards and killing the engine when starting and stopping on an incline.
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Re: Leaf moves forward when car in FWD and begin to release brake pedal - suggestions/recommendations ?

Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:18 am

I dislike creep, but I found a way to stop it. When waiting at a traffic light, just creep forward until you are pressing against the bumper of the car in front of you. Then creep stops having any effect. Do it subtly enough and they'll never notice! :o :roll:

(much like Tesla autopilot, this approach does not work effectively when you are first in line at the traffic light)


Kidding aside, in the Tesla I have creep turned off. With the brake hold feature (press the brake until the car stops; (H) appears on the dash and the brake continues to be applied even if you take your foot off the pedal), it means when I stop at a light I don't need to worry about the pedals until I want to go again by pressing the accelerator.
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