GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Buying Used 2015 QC Option question

Sat May 19, 2018 11:50 am

alozzy wrote:@GaryHere Because you are already above 80% charge, the estimated rate of charge is less than or equal to 3.3 kW accordingly - which is why they both show the same estimated time to 100% SOC. You should find the estimates are different when the SOC is lower.

Also, I would guess that the estimated time is off a bit due to the fact that Japan has 100V/200V supplies. Additionally, some parts of Japan are 50 Hz while others are 60 Hz, which would also throw off the estimates. That of course assumes that Nissan didn't bother to adjust the software estimates based on the different supply voltages in each market and instead based everything off of Japanese supply voltages (and possibly 50 Hz frequency too).


Thanks for the reply. It has changed since my question; now it shows a lesser time for 240 6.6 vs 3.3 240 by a few hours.

Kinda confusing but Im getting to know my Leaf each day :D



GlennD wrote:The need for L3 charging really depends on your needs. Both my Leaf's and my eGolf had quick charging. On all three I never used it. At home L2 charging works for me. When my 2014 B was totaled I had just over 9000 miles with 14 months left on the lease,

If I needed fast charging Tony Williams company makes an L3 adapter but for me it is a waste of money.



The other day I called up a company for an adapter question not knowing about the company.

So this guy answers: "Hey this is Tony." (He didnt say this is so and so company, I got confused) So I go, "Oh sorry I got the wrong number".

It was Tony Williams and then I started going on and on about the Leaf and battery issues and why Nissan opted for air cooling but we got on track as to why I called. LOL.

I told him I appreciated his work and input on MNL even though I was just lurking here back in 2012 and opted for a Volt> Leaf at the time due to all the negativity then, with the battery.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9388
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying Used 2015 QC Option question

Sat May 19, 2018 1:45 pm

Thanks for the reply. It has changed since my question; now it shows a lesser time for 240 6.6 vs 3.3 240 by a few hours.


This question is for the other more experienced posters here: do you guys think this may be a BMS reset? I could see an 11 bar 2015 getting reset to show 12.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Buying Used 2015 QC Option question

Sat May 19, 2018 2:27 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thanks for the reply. It has changed since my question; now it shows a lesser time for 240 6.6 vs 3.3 240 by a few hours.


This question is for the other more experienced posters here: do you guys think this may be a BMS reset? I could see an 11 bar 2015 getting reset to show 12.


From what Gary has posted in several threads, I see absolutely no information that would cause me to even consider the possibility of an LBC reset.

What Gary is seeing with charging time estimates is perfectly normal for a 2015. L2 rate starts tapering sooner on my 2015 than on my 2011 (of course it is at 6 kW instead of 3.3 kW before tapering). Another situation that can cause the L2 estimated times to be closer than they would normally be is if the last charge was at an EVSE that was capable of more than 3.3 kW, but was not capable of the full 6 kW rate. I just finished a DCQC charge that stopped at 95% SOC according to the dash display. The estimated time to charge is now showing 1:20, 1:30, and 2:30 even though my last L2 charge was at the full 6 kW rate.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

GlennD
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1354
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jul 2013
Leaf Number: 410357
Location: Anaheim

Re: Buying Used 2015 QC Option question

Sat May 19, 2018 3:30 pm

GaryHere wrote:
alozzy wrote:@GaryHere Because you are already above 80% charge, the estimated rate of charge is less than or equal to 3.3 kW accordingly - which is why they both show the same estimated time to 100% SOC. You should find the estimates are different when the SOC is lower.

Also, I would guess that the estimated time is off a bit due to the fact that Japan has 100V/200V supplies. Additionally, some parts of Japan are 50 Hz while others are 60 Hz, which would also throw off the estimates. That of course assumes that Nissan didn't bother to adjust the software estimates based on the different supply voltages in each market and instead based everything off of Japanese supply voltages (and possibly 50 Hz frequency too).


Thanks for the reply. It has changed since my question; now it shows a lesser time for 240 6.6 vs 3.3 240 by a few hours.

Kinda confusing but Im getting to know my Leaf each day :D



GlennD wrote:The need for L3 charging really depends on your needs. Both my Leaf's and my eGolf had quick charging. On all three I never used it. At home L2 charging works for me. When my 2014 B was totaled I had just over 9000 miles with 14 months left on the lease,

If I needed fast charging Tony Williams company makes an L3 adapter but for me it is a waste of money.



The other day I called up a company for an adapter question not knowing about the company.

So this guy answers: "Hey this is Tony." (He didnt say this is so and so company, I got confused) So I go, "Oh sorry I got the wrong number".

It was Tony Williams and then I started going on and on about the Leaf and battery issues and why Nissan opted for air cooling but we got on track as to why I called. LOL.

I told him I appreciated his work and input on MNL even though I was just lurking here back in 2012 and opted for a Volt> Leaf at the time due to all the negativity then, with the battery.


Quick Charge Power is a small company.. Tony Williams is an owner along with his brother. He is a true EV person and he frequently answers the phone informally.
2012 Cayenne Red SL traded for:
2013 Pearl White SL Premium
Traded for a Cirrus White 2014 Mercedes B (totaled)
2016 Urano Gray eGolf SEL w/ drive assist
Loved the VW but it sat too low for my old body
Back to a Cirrus White 2017 B250e

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Buying Used 2015 QC Option question

Sat May 19, 2018 3:38 pm

GlennD wrote:
GaryHere wrote:
alozzy wrote:@GaryHere Because you are already above 80% charge, the estimated rate of charge is less than or equal to 3.3 kW accordingly - which is why they both show the same estimated time to 100% SOC. You should find the estimates are different when the SOC is lower.

Also, I would guess that the estimated time is off a bit due to the fact that Japan has 100V/200V supplies. Additionally, some parts of Japan are 50 Hz while others are 60 Hz, which would also throw off the estimates. That of course assumes that Nissan didn't bother to adjust the software estimates based on the different supply voltages in each market and instead based everything off of Japanese supply voltages (and possibly 50 Hz frequency too).


Thanks for the reply. It has changed since my question; now it shows a lesser time for 240 6.6 vs 3.3 240 by a few hours.

Kinda confusing but Im getting to know my Leaf each day :D



GlennD wrote:The need for L3 charging really depends on your needs. Both my Leaf's and my eGolf had quick charging. On all three I never used it. At home L2 charging works for me. When my 2014 B was totaled I had just over 9000 miles with 14 months left on the lease,

If I needed fast charging Tony Williams company makes an L3 adapter but for me it is a waste of money.



The other day I called up a company for an adapter question not knowing about the company.

So this guy answers: "Hey this is Tony." (He didnt say this is so and so company, I got confused) So I go, "Oh sorry I got the wrong number".

It was Tony Williams and then I started going on and on about the Leaf and battery issues and why Nissan opted for air cooling but we got on track as to why I called. LOL.

I told him I appreciated his work and input on MNL even though I was just lurking here back in 2012 and opted for a Volt> Leaf at the time due to all the negativity then, with the battery.


Quick Charge Power is a small company.. Tony Williams is an owner along with his brother. He is a true EV person and he frequently answers the phone informally.


He was cool to chat to. I like the informal answering for sure :D

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Buying Used 2015 QC Option question

Mon May 21, 2018 2:16 pm

I didnt want to make a new thread so will post this question here.

Can someone explain these? What they stand for?
I looked on MNL to see; didnt see a thing, maybe looked in wrong areas?


GID?

SOH-- I think this one I was able to google and get State of Health

aHR- I would guess HR is hours? The a? Average?

HX? - We write this as history in the medical world



Thanks

G

goldbrick
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Buying Used 2015 QC Option question

Mon May 21, 2018 2:39 pm

I believe GID is a term coined by a DIY'er here at MNL or perhaps another EV site. It is basically a unit of energy contained in the battery.

AHR is amp-hour and is a standard measure of capacity of a batter = number of amps available for number of hours until battery is 'emtpy'

Hx and SOH are more mysterious. I think they were coined by the implementer of LeafSpy. SOH stands for 'state of health' and is used to gauge the battery's 'health'. Hx is sometimes referred to as the internal resistance of the battery although I don't think this has ever been definitely proven. A theory I've heard lately is that SOH is a long term running average of Hx while Hx is a more instantaneous measurement.

Part of the problem is that these terms have all been 'reversed engineered' by DIY'ers and Nissan has not released any official documentation on how their BMS (battery management system) works and what the numbers mean.

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Buying Used 2015 QC Option question

Mon May 21, 2018 4:50 pm

goldbrick wrote:I believe GID is a term coined by a DIY'er here at MNL or perhaps another EV site. It is basically a unit of energy contained in the battery.

AHR is amp-hour and is a standard measure of capacity of a batter = number of amps available for number of hours until battery is 'emtpy'

Hx and SOH are more mysterious. I think they were coined by the implementer of LeafSpy. SOH stands for 'state of health' and is used to gauge the battery's 'health'. Hx is sometimes referred to as the internal resistance of the battery although I don't think this has ever been definitely proven. A theory I've heard lately is that SOH is a long term running average of Hx while Hx is a more instantaneous measurement.

Part of the problem is that these terms have all been 'reversed engineered' by DIY'ers and Nissan has not released any official documentation on how their BMS (battery management system) works and what the numbers mean.


Thanks goldbrick for your reply on this.

I just curious cause as I more and more look at MNL and the posts and replies, I often see these terms and didnt want to be in the dark!

I think knowing all that about my battery, etc would make me even more OCD about it all than I am now !! LOL

I will just stick to my SOC and 12 bars on the dash for now that is.


Also I have been reading replies from everyone and not charging over 80% all weekend as seems to be the suggestions.

Only this has caused me not charge to 100% for a longer trip and I split my trip up to charge to 80% then resume then charge again to 80%.


Is it really bad for the battery to charge it to 100% all the time and drive it without it being at 80%?

Is this worse to let the car sit for a while fully charged with no use?

goldbrick
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Buying Used 2015 QC Option question

Mon May 21, 2018 4:57 pm

It's all anecdotal evidence as far as I know but I think it is a well accepted fact that there are several things that are detrimental to Li batteries. Keep in mind that there are different chemistries involved, just between model years of Leafs and of course, Leaf batteries are different than Tesla batteries and are different than laptop or phone batteries etc.

Having said all that, I would say ANY Li battery is degraded by charging it too fast, too low or too high. The BMS will control most of these parameters but the Leaf BMS will let the battery get very close to 100% or 0% charge. 0% charge is less of an issue since if that happens you are stuck somewhere and have bigger problems :mrgreen: Charging to 100% is much easier and more common.

The common wisdom on the board here is that 100% and high battery temps are bad for the Leaf battery. Either one by itself is not good, both of them together are worse. The battery doesn't just explode - thankfully - but whatever chemical changes occur to degrade the battery are increased under these conditions.

So the general advice is to not leave the battery at high state of charge for long periods of time and to avoid 100% charges when the battery is hot, to the extent possible. If you need 100% charge for a long trip, try to time the charging so it hits 100% shortly before you go to minimize the time it is sitting at 100% charge. Also, if the battery is hot, avoid charging over 80% as much as possible. I'd add that is better to keep the battery above 10% charge if you can help it. If it gets below that, try to charge as soon as possible for the same reasons.

warrenc
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:33 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2017
Leaf Number: 418438
Location: Tacoma,WA

Re: Buying Used 2015 QC Option question

Mon May 21, 2018 5:40 pm

[quote="goldbrick"]It's all anecdotal evidence as far as I know but I think it is a well accepted fact that there are several things that are detrimental to Li batteries. Keep in mind that there are different chemistries involved, just between model years of Leafs and of course, Leaf batteries are different than Tesla batteries and are different than laptop or phone batteries etc.

Having said all that, I would say ANY Li battery is degraded by charging it too fast, too low or too high. The BMS will control most of these parameters but the Leaf BMS will let the battery get very close to 100% or 0% charge. 0% charge is less of an issue since if that happens you are stuck somewhere and have bigger problems :mrgreen: Charging to 100% is much easier and more common.

The common wisdom on the board here is that 100% and high battery temps are bad for the Leaf battery. Either one by itself is not good, both of them together are worse. The battery doesn't just explode - thankfully - but whatever chemical changes occur to degrade the battery are increased under these conditions.

So the general advice is to not leave the battery at high state of charge for long periods of time and to avoid 100% charges when the battery is hot, to the extent possible. If you need 100% charge for a long trip, try to time the charging so it hits 100% shortly before you go to minimize the time it is sitting at 100% charge. Also, if the battery is hot, avoid charging over 80% as much as possible. I'd add that is better to keep the battery above 10% charge if you can help it. If it gets below that, try to charge as soon as possible for the same reasons.[/quote
I think that is probably the best explanation I have heard for the common wisdom of Leaf battery management.
I just have one question about the whole thing; I generally charge to 100% shortly before I drive to work because that allows me to drive for 3 days without a recharge. It is generally cool around here in the Pacific NW area. If I charge to 80%, I'm lucky to get 2 days out of it, because I get sort of nervous if I head for work with less than 50% left. I know that's not ideal, but I leave around 4 AM and dealing with the charger and the cord that early is something I try to avoid!
Should I not worry about draining the battery down to LBW on a regular basis and charge every two days to 80%? I'm always concerned about having to run an errand after work, too :|
2013 Leaf SV
Tacoma, WA

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