GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Thu May 17, 2018 7:50 am

Hi. Thnx to all for answering my QC Port/6.6kw questions in my other post.

I'm getting the 2015 S today and live in Arizona. I'm well aware of the past lawsuit against Nissan, history of battery degradation from heat, etc.

Do i have to worry more about heat and the battery degrading faster with a 2015 than the old 2011 Leaf?

I still SMH after reading the past battery problems to why Nissan hadn't changed to thermal protection (like my Volt had) on its batteries (ya money I get that, but it's a no brainer to protect the most important part of an EV)

I suppose that's another post :D

Back to this post.


For protection of the battery from heat I know to:

Not QC frequently in one day or at all

Park in shade/carport especially here in Arizona

Don't charge if it is 80% full


Any other tips, comments on this would be appreciated.


Thank you all. Gary

goldbrick
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Thu May 17, 2018 9:02 am

Forumite GerryAZ has a Leaf in Phoenix and has had good luck with it. You could search for his posts or PM him for specific advice.

In general, the common consensus is that high SOC and high temps together are the worst combination for degradation. That and very low SOC which is true for any Li battery. In a nutshell, try to keep the SOC between 20% and 80% as much as possible and keep the battery as cool as possible. Remember the battery is large and heavy and changes temperature very slowly. If it is sitting, it will stay close to the average temperature of the day since it heats/cools so slowly. High charge or discharge rates will heat it internally so a QCDC session or high speed highway driving will increase the battery temperature significantly. Once it's warm, it will take a long time to cool off since there is no active cooling available.

I wouldn't sweat (no pun intended...) the details too much. Just try to drive it and enjoy it. I'd avoid leaving it sit at > 80% SOC or below 20% SOC. Going over or under for a short period is fine but don't make a habit of letting the car sit at 99% SOC or 5% SOC. These batteries will degrade but hopefully you will get years of use out of it before it loses enough range to cause problems. By that point, I'd expect newer and better cars to be available and maybe even better replacement packs for the Leaf. I think of battery degradation somewhat like getting that first dent in your new car. It's going to happen so the best strategy is to just accept it and enjoy the car for what it is - transportation. As long as it gets you where you need to go, it's all good.

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Thu May 17, 2018 10:28 am

goldbrick wrote:Forumite GerryAZ has a Leaf in Phoenix and has had good luck with it. You could search for his posts or PM him for specific advice.

In general, the common consensus is that high SOC and high temps together are the worst combination for degradation. That and very low SOC which is true for any Li battery. In a nutshell, try to keep the SOC between 20% and 80% as much as possible and keep the battery as cool as possible. Remember the battery is large and heavy and changes temperature very slowly. If it is sitting, it will stay close to the average temperature of the day since it heats/cools so slowly. High charge or discharge rates will heat it internally so a QCDC session or high speed highway driving will increase the battery temperature significantly. Once it's warm, it will take a long time to cool off since there is no active cooling available.

I wouldn't sweat (no pun intended...) the details too much. Just try to drive it and enjoy it. I'd avoid leaving it sit at > 80% SOC or below 20% SOC. Going over or under for a short period is fine but don't make a habit of letting the car sit at 99% SOC or 5% SOC. These batteries will degrade but hopefully you will get years of use out of it before it loses enough range to cause problems. By that point, I'd expect newer and better cars to be available and maybe even better replacement packs for the Leaf. I think of battery degradation somewhat like getting that first dent in your new car. It's going to happen so the best strategy is to just accept it and enjoy the car for what it is - transportation. As long as it gets you where you need to go, it's all good.


Hi there! Thanks much for the reply; very helpful for sure and reassuring!

I wanted a Leaf way back when they first arrived; then all the battery issues turned me off to it but it kinda stuck in my head as I like the cars looks, interior and exterior.

I will pay for a shaded site at my apt. complex to park since I dont want it parked here in the Sun. I dont have a place to charge as Im in an apt now so have to now use public Blink here, which isnt cheap but looking for a rental home where I could charge.

I think also with the Leaf that we are lucky that the capacity is right there to see when buying used.
Other vehicles that capacity isnt so obvious without hooking it up to equipment.

I eliminated many this way.
There was one dealer trying to sell me a 2011 with 6 bars for 8000! I told him about the bars, he had no clue (obviously)


And as you said, in the future it will get better and better for battery issues.

Hopefully more charging stations too. When I see the numerous gas stations, I think, wow how lop-sided this is in terms of these could be charging stations instead :D

Thanks again and I may PM the AZ Leaf owner if I have additional questions.


Have a great day!

goldbrick
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Thu May 17, 2018 1:08 pm

Be sure to check out the PlugShare app. https://www.plugshare.com/ It will show you the charging stations any where and you can often find free ones that may be convenient for you in shopping centers, etc. I'm at 5100 miles on my Leaf and I've only charged at home twice :mrgreen:

It's easy for me since I have free charging at work but I've used the PlugShare app to find some other freebies as well for when I'm getting coffee, etc. Good luck and enjoy your Leaf!

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Thu May 17, 2018 1:14 pm

goldbrick wrote:Be sure to check out the PlugShare app. https://www.plugshare.com/ It will show you the charging stations any where and you can often find free ones that may be convenient for you in shopping centers, etc. I'm at 5100 miles on my Leaf and I've only charged at home twice :mrgreen:

It's easy for me since I have free charging at work but I've used the PlugShare app to find some other freebies as well for when I'm getting coffee, etc. Good luck and enjoy your Leaf!


Thank you for the reply. Yes Plugshare is great. Can't find too many free ones though.


Got the Leaf and drove it.

Had a Fiat 500e and the Fiat had way more power though it shows less torque in stats.


Here is a pic of the batt temp at 6 bars. Wish it were a bit lower but this is Southern AZ :D

Image

Evoforce
Posts: 820
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Thu May 17, 2018 10:51 pm

Look up TEVA in your area. This is an electric vehicle association. Tucson Electric Vehicle Association to be exact. Many former and current Leaf owners too! Very helpful group with fun outings and great advice. I assume that you are maybe somewhere near there. Welcome! We may cross paths in the future.

Anyway... as far as your lizard battery holding up better than 2011 battery, not much better. Maybe, you will get 6ish months more out of it in comparison, at best. The thing to do now is just drive it and enjoy it as long as possible. It will degrade about the same whether you drive it much or not. So to use it to the fullest, is the best use for the return of investment.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9068
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Thu May 17, 2018 11:10 pm

Anyway... as far as your lizard battery holding up better than 2011 battery, not much better. Maybe, you will get 6ish months more out of it in comparison, at best. The thing to do now is just drive it and enjoy it as long as possible. It will degrade about the same whether you drive it much or not. So to use it to the fullest, is the best use for the return of investment.


If six temp bars will be typical for him, with few excursions above seven, I think the Lizard pack will last MUCH longer than a 2011 Canary pack.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Evoforce
Posts: 820
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Thu May 17, 2018 11:54 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Anyway... as far as your lizard battery holding up better than 2011 battery, not much better. Maybe, you will get 6ish months more out of it in comparison, at best. The thing to do now is just drive it and enjoy it as long as possible. It will degrade about the same whether you drive it much or not. So to use it to the fullest, is the best use for the return of investment.


If six temp bars will be typical for him, with few excursions above seven, I think the Lizard pack will last MUCH longer than a 2011 Canary pack.


Six temp bars will not be typical for him... Unless he is in the higher elevations. 7-8 plus will be typical during the day and especially as summer sets in.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Thu May 17, 2018 11:57 pm

Evoforce wrote:Look up TEVA in your area. This is an electric vehicle association. Tucson Electric Vehicle Association to be exact. Many former and current Leaf owners too! Very helpful group with fun outings and great advice. I assume that you are maybe somewhere near there. Welcome! We may cross paths in the future.

Anyway... as far as your lizard battery holding up better than 2011 battery, not much better. Maybe, you will get 6ish months more out of it in comparison, at best. The thing to do now is just drive it and enjoy it as long as possible. It will degrade about the same whether you drive it much or not. So to use it to the fullest, is the best use for the return of investment.


I actually live in Tucson and thanks much for the TEVA tip!

LeftieBiker wrote:
Anyway... as far as your lizard battery holding up better than 2011 battery, not much better. Maybe, you will get 6ish months more out of it in comparison, at best. The thing to do now is just drive it and enjoy it as long as possible. It will degrade about the same whether you drive it much or not. So to use it to the fullest, is the best use for the return of investment.


If six temp bars will be typical for him, with few excursions above seven, I think the Lizard pack will last MUCH longer than a 2011 Canary pack.


That sounds positive. :)

I thought Tucson might be a little better on the battery than Phoenix temp wise especially at night since we cool off faster here due to the higher elevation.

I guess it takes the battery a lot of time to change its temp. I thought by now, midnight, in the 70s, it would go down on bars but it's still at 6. Aww well.

I'm just going to enjoy the wonderful car I have for as long as I can as Evoforce mentioned, cannot wait till tomorrow to really drive it more ;)

Good night all. Gary

cwerdna
Posts: 7993
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Fri May 18, 2018 12:04 am

GaryHere wrote:I guess it takes the battery a lot of time to change its temp. I thought by now, midnight, in the 70s, it would go down on bars but it's still at 6. Aww well.

It does. The battery has a lot of thermal mass and takes awhile to adapt to ambient temps.

The stupid battery temp display has huge overlapping ranges along w/some black box algorithm: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... ture_Gauge.

The only way to really see pack temps is to get something like Leaf Spy (been a user of the Pro version on Android since July 2015). I'm pretty sure that my when my pack temp rises above 59 F, that's when it transitions from 4 bars to 5 bars.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “New Members & Newbie Questions”