GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:42 am

SageBrush wrote:
GaryHere wrote:
Evoforce wrote:I agree about the charge port location. I wish all cars had them in the front.


True.

The silliest location was on my Fiat 500e where it was in the rear passenger location area. A few times I had to maneuver the car into a space to get the J1772 to fit. :(


SageBrush wrote:Was this during your battery capacity test ?



Yes. Still on that test, have another 19% to at 20%.

Another question: wouldn't faster speeds vs lower, street speeds affect the kWh/miles results?

Im thinking it would be quite lower at 55mph than 25mph on streets?

Or is speed irrelevant?

Speed will decrease your miles/kWh.

Keep this relation in mind:
rate * distance = amount
rate: miles/kWh
distance: miles
amount: kWh

If you charge in the middle of a test, you have to include it in your calculation.



I'm not planning on recharging till, as you instructed, I get to 20%

I was just thinking about how speed might/could change the kwh/miles.

Edit...Thank you for the explanation above with the miles/kWh, etc !

SageBrush
Posts: 2411
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:50 am

GaryHere wrote:I'm not planning on recharging till, as you instructed, I get to 20%

Ah, good. That is the simplest approach.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:48 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GaryHere wrote:I'm not planning on recharging till, as you instructed, I get to 20%

Ah, good. That is the simplest approach.


Yup. Then I'll post results and we'll see what's up.

Part, or perhaps all the range issues I seem to think I have with the car is, since I've owned it, I've been operating in a slim range usage, namely never charged higher than 80% nor less than 30% (but will let it go to 20% for the test) so this cuts off a lot of miles but I'm not being inconvenienced by this at all; my driving needs these days are fine within that limited range so why not keep it there with 105-108 degree days coming this week. :D

SageBrush
Posts: 2411
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:52 pm

GaryHere wrote:I've been operating in a slim range usage, namely never charged higher than 80% nor less than 30% (but will let it go to 20% for the test) so this cuts off a lot of miles but I'm not being inconvenienced by this at all; my driving needs these days are fine within that limited range so why not keep it there with 105-108 degree days coming this week. :D

Absolutely.

I do the same, and in the summer we try our best to park in shaded areas. I don't even want to think about the temperature of black asphalt in Tuscon in direct sunlight.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:35 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GaryHere wrote:I've been operating in a slim range usage, namely never charged higher than 80% nor less than 30% (but will let it go to 20% for the test) so this cuts off a lot of miles but I'm not being inconvenienced by this at all; my driving needs these days are fine within that limited range so why not keep it there with 105-108 degree days coming this week. :D

Absolutely.

I do the same, and in the summer we try our best to park in shaded areas. I don't even want to think about the temperature of black asphalt in Tuscon in direct sunlight.


Yea that asphalt is obviously very hot and look what sits directly above it when I park: that battery lol.

I try to be careful where I park. Sometimes on the sandy area of places if no trees, much cooler.

Honestly today at the gym I seriously thought about if I'll even keep this car.

If I needed to make a long trip this week with it 108 degrees, how could I QC a few times, I'd degrade that battery. Some will say don't worry but I won't do that to the car. I know better to protect it.

We Leaf owners are the TMS for our vehicles. Lol. You hear that Nissan? Hehe.

But again the two choices I had with TMS were the Fiat 500e or the Chevy Spark.

That Spark, eh, not a fan. But some have QC so that's a plus.

Loved my Fiat. However no QC available in any model.

But no one in Tucson can repair a Spark EV nor Fiat 500e but they can repair a Leaf here.

leafkabob
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:47 am
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2015
Leaf Number: 1827
Location: Central Phoenix

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:48 am

Gary,

For what it is worth, here is my experience with the 2011 Leaf battery vs. 2015 Leaf battery in Phoenix.

2011: At 14 months of ownership I was down to 10 battery bars. I parked the car in my garage every day, which gets incredibly hot in the summer -- and retains the heat overnight. Nissan bought that car back from me but I was hooked by the EV bug and couldn't stand driving ICE.

So, in 2015 I bought a used 2011 Leaf with a month-old 2015 Lizard battery. During the hot months (May-October) I did not park my car in the garage during the day. Instead, I parked in front of my house, with no shade. But I figured the air temp cooled down quicker on the street than it did in my garage. I walk every morning at 4:30 am, so during those hot months I would move the car into my garage at 4:30 and let it charge until I left for work at 7. That system worked out great and was not inconvenient.

I am now in month 34 of ownership of the Lizard battery car and still show 11 bars. Although, I have been thinking for months that I will lose #11 any day. My full charge currently shows 222 gids. And the range is definitely more like 10 bars than 11.

I only fastcharged my 2011 twice (at the beginning and at the end of the Phoenix Leaf Range Test in 2012). My Lizard battery car doesn't have fastcharge ability.

Good luck with your car and enjoy it!

Kelly
Kelly

2011 White SL-e (sold back to Nissan on 01/10/2013)
2011Silver SL with new lizard battery purchased used on 9/9/2015
2018 Tesla Model 3 received 4/27/2018

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:31 am

leafkabob wrote:Gary,

For what it is worth, here is my experience with the 2011 Leaf battery vs. 2015 Leaf battery in Phoenix.

2011: At 14 months of ownership I was down to 10 battery bars. I parked the car in my garage every day, which gets incredibly hot in the summer -- and retains the heat overnight. Nissan bought that car back from me but I was hooked by the EV bug and couldn't stand driving ICE.

So, in 2015 I bought a used 2011 Leaf with a month-old 2015 Lizard battery. During the hot months (May-October) I did not park my car in the garage during the day. Instead, I parked in front of my house, with no shade. But I figured the air temp cooled down quicker on the street than it did in my garage. I walk every morning at 4:30 am, so during those hot months I would move the car into my garage at 4:30 and let it charge until I left for work at 7. That system worked out great and was not inconvenient.

I am now in month 34 of ownership of the Lizard battery car and still show 11 bars. Although, I have been thinking for months that I will lose #11 any day. My full charge currently shows 222 gids. And the range is definitely more like 10 bars than 11.

I only fastcharged my 2011 twice (at the beginning and at the end of the Phoenix Leaf Range Test in 2012). My Lizard battery car doesn't have fastcharge ability.

Good luck with your car and enjoy it!

Kelly


Hi Kelly, thanks for sharing your experience with your Leafs, much appreciated.

Sounds like that battery could handle our heat here a bit better than the older batteries so this info is encouraging to me.

Also was thinking while reading this, that being the Leaf unfortunately has a past negative battery-heat relationship, and most owners (plus the capacity is shown ok the dash unlike most other popular EV's) check their batteries with Leaf Spy etc and know more details than other EV owners do, who knows what's really going on with other EV battery degradation since no one delves into it as deep as Leaf owners do.

At least I've never read anyone testing a Miev, Fiat 500e etc battery, though likely some do and have; I just never see anything online regarding battery capacity as much as I see with the Leaf, the Leaf dominates this topic when Google searched.

Anyways thanks for your post and stay cool this week and the summer.

Gary
Last edited by GaryHere on Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

SageBrush
Posts: 2411
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:31 am

leafkabob wrote:So, in 2015 I bought a used 2011 Leaf with a month-old 2015 Lizard battery. During the hot months (May-October) I did not park my car in the garage during the day. Instead, I parked in front of my house, with no shade. But I figured the air temp cooled down quicker on the street than it did in my garage. I walk every morning at 4:30 am, so during those hot months I would move the car into my garage at 4:30 and let it charge until I left for work at 7. That system worked out great and was not inconvenient.

I am now in month 34 of ownership of the Lizard battery car and still show 11 bars. Although, I have been thinking for months that I will lose #11 any day. My full charge currently shows 222 gids. And the range is definitely more like 10 bars than 11.

Smart !
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

SageBrush
Posts: 2411
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:34 am

Gary,

I don't think the occasional DCFC is going to matter to your overall battery degradation rate. The day in, day out high temperatures, particularly if the battery stews at high SoC, are the issue.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:21 am

SageBrush wrote:Gary,

I don't think the occasional DCFC is going to matter to your overall battery degradation rate. The day in, day out high temperatures, particularly if the battery stews at high SoC, are the issue.


Ahh ok, thank you.


I should have the numbers from the test today, I'm at 26% SOC. ;)

At my current rate of usage, I'll be logging only a little less than 2000 miles a year on my Leaf.

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