SageBrush
Posts: 2803
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:57 am

GaryHere wrote:I should have the numbers from the test today, I'm at 26% SOC. ;)

Feel free to post them now. The test does not require exactly 20%, any more than it requires exactly 80% ;-)

This symbol
~
means 'approximately'
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:59 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GaryHere wrote:I should have the numbers from the test today, I'm at 26% SOC. ;)

Feel free to post them now. The test does not require exactly 20%, any more than it requires exactly 80% ;-)

This symbol
~
means 'approximately'


Oh ok

I didn't drive much today so still at 25%

Tonight I'll probably drive to get pizza so I'll post the numbers then.

Thanks again for all. :D

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:00 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GaryHere wrote:I should have the numbers from the test today, I'm at 26% SOC. ;)

Feel free to post them now. The test does not require exactly 20%, any more than it requires exactly 80% ;-)

This symbol
~
means 'approximately'


Here are the results------>

Image


Exactly 80% to 20% SOC just now.

49.3 miles driven
4.9/kWh


I really dont know if I passed or failed. I tried to look at your figures and got kinda lost :(

Sorry.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9412
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:16 pm

I'm going to withdraw my guess. I tend to make mistakes this late at night. ;-) I will say that based on an 80% charge you got good range and great efficiency.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

powersurge
Posts: 1059
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:42 am

+1 This new poster has been worrying for nothing... The car runs fine...

SageBrush
Posts: 2803
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:57 am

GaryHere wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
GaryHere wrote:
Exactly 80% to 20% SOC just now.

49.3 miles driven
4.9 miles/kWh


During this test you consumed
49.3 miles / 4.9 miles/kWh = 10.06 kWh and you used 60% of your battery capacity

So the full battery capacity would be
10.06/0.6 = 16.77 kWh **

Interp: I'd do a couple more tests to be sure, but based on this test the 12th bar should drop any day now

----
Are you able to recharge at a station that reports energy delivered ?
It would be nice to confirm the results of this first test

**
Two key assumptions here:
The miles/kWh meter was reset at the beginning of the test and not reset thereafter
No additional recharges during the test
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:20 am

SageBrush wrote:
GaryHere wrote:
SageBrush wrote:


During this test you consumed
49.3 miles / 4.9 miles/kWh = 10.06 kWh and you used 60% of your battery capacity

So the full battery capacity would be
10.06/0.6 = 16.77 kWh **

Interp: I'd do a couple more tests to be sure, but based on this test the 12th bar should drop any day now

----
Are you able to recharge at a station that reports energy delivered ?
It would be nice to confirm the results of this first test

**
Two key assumptions here:
The miles/kWh meter was reset at the beginning of the test and not reset thereafter
No additional recharges during the test


Thanks for your math, I definitely wouldn't been able to!

Question on the first bolded:

The 0.6 figure is the 60% I used?

And then that's taken and times the kWh used we arrive at 16.77 kWh capacity on a supposedly 24 kWh battery (21 available when it's new) which leads to my second bolded.....NOT good. :(

Aww well.

I'll do more tests. I think on that Chargepoint chargers it shows that kWh delivered however the Blink don't due to here in AZ the rates go by time, not amount of kWh.

I have a screenshot somewhere of how much kWh was put out by the CP charger in an hours time; dunno if that would help but I'll post it if so.

Thanks very much for the math help!

I guess trading this in to Carmax when I get the title from Carvana might be happening depending on more tests. With our heat here and getting possibly degraded 15% when the first bar goes likely soon, I don't think it wise to keep the car.

A shame really. I like it. But it is slowly turning me off to keep it but we'll see what happens with more testing etc and I'd like to get that Leaf Spy on it as well before I trade it in, if I even do or would.

SageBrush
Posts: 2803
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:16 pm

GaryHere wrote:The 0.6 figure is the 60% I used?

And then that's taken and times the kWh used we arrive at 16.77 kWh capacity on a supposedly 24 kWh battery (21 available when it's new) which leads to my second bolded.....NOT good. :(

Yes, the 0.6 is the 60% SoC used
And the the kWh used divided by
the SoC used gives the total battery capacity.

To see why the arithmetic works this way, imagine you first want to know how many kWh you have in ONe percent:
That would be 10.06 kwh / 60 = 0.167 kWh
Then 100% SoC is 0.167 * 100 = 16.7 kWh

Recharging at a place that reports kWh from the meter is a good idea.
Your other choice is to buy an OBDII adapter. If LeafSpy agrees with 16.7 kWh you have a reliable answer. If not, then more testing is in order.

Sorry I could not be the bearer of better news but it is not terrible. At 4.9 miles a kWh you have a total range of 4.9*16.7 = ~ 80 miles, or figure 70 miles with a little security. The tougher question is how quickly the battery will degrade in Tuscon.

I wish you well, however you decide

-- Eric
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:39 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GaryHere wrote:The 0.6 figure is the 60% I used?

And then that's taken and times the kWh used we arrive at 16.77 kWh capacity on a supposedly 24 kWh battery (21 available when it's new) which leads to my second bolded.....NOT good. :(

Yes, the 0.6 is the 60% SoC used
And the the kWh used divided by
the SoC used gives the total battery capacity.

To see why the arithmetic works this way, imagine you first want to know how many kWh you have in ONe percent:
That would be 10.06 kwh / 60 = 0.167 kWh
Then 100% SoC is 0.167 * 100 = 16.7 kWh

Recharging at a place that reports kWh from the meter is a good idea.
Your other choice is to buy an OBDII adapter. If LeafSpy agrees with 16.7 kWh you have a reliable answer. If not, then more testing is in order.

Sorry I could not be the bearer of better news but it is not terrible. At 4.9 miles a kWh you have a total range of 4.9*16.7 = ~ 80 miles, or figure 70 miles with a little security. The tougher question is how quickly the battery will degrade in Tuscon.

I wish you well, however you decide

-- Eric


First, thank you very much Eric for ALL your replies here; I'm very grateful and appreciative for sure; you've helped tremendously!

I understand the math now, that's a good test in absence of the Leaf Spy.

Not too bad a range left I suppose.

Do you think the lessened capacity is typical for the age of the battery? 3 years old?

I don't think it's been baking too long in heat of those three years since it was in a non desert environment before.

Yes the tougher question is how quickly from this lessened capacity will it degrade with our temps here. And how much will I get outta this car long term.

As it stands today, I'm leaning towards trading it in for a vehicle liquid cooled. I'd like to stay all electric but I suppose another Volt could be a possibility. Either that or back to the Fiat with no repair facility within 110 miles. Lol.

I'll see, I have time to decide, don't want to be so hasty with this since I'm going to be out money unless I sold it to a private party.

In the meantime I'll run another test.

One other question on my mind.

Wouldn't the speed driven influence those results of the kWh used?

I mean if I drove at 75mph from 80 to 20% SOC wouldn't that yield different results than my driving this recent test at about 20-35 mph?

Just curious. Thanks again.

Have a great day.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9412
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:22 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I'm going to withdraw my guess. I tend to make mistakes this late at night. ;-) I will say that based on an 80% charge you got good range and great efficiency.


My guess last night was a pack with between 12% and 15% capacity loss, so I guess I was close enough.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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