Level 2 Home Charging Question

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Zugzwang

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2018
Messages
16
Another newbie question!

I am hoping someone can help me make sure I have this right or correct me where I have gone wrong.

I’ve discovered that the 2018 Leaf now comes with an EVSE (a charging cable that plugs into an outlet on one end, and the car on the other. In-between each end is a box with three indicator lights).

I appreciate I can use this EVSE to plug into an ordinary outlet and charge the car. This, I gather, is a level-1 charge. To make it work I need to attach an adaptor to one end so that it plugs into the standard outlet (a NEMA 5-15 120V, if I am using that right). This adaptor is also provided with the car.

Many Leaf owners, however, upgrade to a level 2 charge. To do this, you need a 200 Amp panel in your home. You also need the 4-prong outlet (I think the proper term is a 14-50 outlet).

My newbie question is: once I’ve upgraded the panel and the outlet (by way of a certified electrician) do I then need to separately buy a new EVSE or some other device? (such as the Clipper Creek I frequently read about? Or the Flow X5?) Or am I right that I can then just remove the adaptor and use the EVSE that comes with the Leaf to connect to the new outlet and the car and get a Level 2 charge?

Thanks for your thoughts and corrections!
 
You don't need a 200 amp panel. You just need a free 40 amp or higher 240 volt circuit. A dryer circuit is often available, but these are usually 30 amps, and in their less than infinite wisdom Nissan made the EVSE 27.5 amps, which is too high a current for continuous use on a 30 amp circuit. So if your service panel is anywhere near where the car will charge it's easy to have a 40 amp circuit installed. If the panel is farther away, it will cost more.
 
There's three ways you can handle this:

1. Stick with 120 volt charging, assuming your range needs are very modest, and the outlet and circuit you plan on plugging into are robust and not shared with anything else.

2. Install an outlet of 40 amps that lets you plug this EVSE in to draw 27.5 amps.

3. Buy a separate EVSE that matches what your existing feed is able to supply.

As far as 200 amps, with modern electrical loads, it may be necessary if you want a 40 amp or higher circuit especially if you have an all-electric home or have central A/C. I have a 125 amp panel on my circa 1981 townhome, and while I have gas heating/cooking I do have central A/C. The electrician said that a 30 amp circuit is the max I can safely have, which is why I have a Clipper Creek LCS-25 (the -30 wasn't yet available). Your electrician will advise you as to the maximum circuit rating that is available, so hold off on buying any additional parts before this consultation.

LeftieBiker said:
You don't need a 200 amp panel. You just need a free 40 amp or higher 240 volt circuit. A dryer circuit is often available, but these are usually 30 amps, and in their less than infinite wisdom Nissan made the EVSE 27.5 amps, which is too high a current for continuous use on a 30 amp circuit.

"In their less than infinite wisdom" Nissan could have played it safe and made it a 16 amp EVSE (like the EVSE Upgraded OEM ones), and someone else will complain than the car will be charging slower than designed.

Now it would be nice if the factory EVSE were adjustable for various wattages like the Tesla one, but then again you're paying a lot more for a Tesla than a Nissan.
 
Nissan should absolutely provide an EVSE with the car that has several amperage presets and the flexibility to charge at voltage ranges between 100V and 240V. There's really no excuse, other than they are cheaping out.
 
alozzy said:
Nissan should absolutely provide an EVSE with the car that has several amperage presets and the flexibility to charge at voltage ranges between 100V and 240V. There's really no excuse, other than they are cheaping out.

Nissan isn't the only one "cheaping out." AFAIK they are the only EV manufacturer besides Tesla that provides a dual voltage portable EVSE, so they're doing more than most.

For that matter, there aren't many third party EVSE's, portable or permanent mount, that work with various circuit sizes.
 
Zugzwang: Trying to regularly use your L1/L2 EVSE just as an L1 probably is not going to prove very satisfactory -- you likely will want to use its L2 functionality (you are correct that you may be able to use it as your main charging station). As noted previously, in order to use that EVSE safely as an L2, your electrician may tell you based on an accounting of all the electrical devices in your home that your local code requires expanding your service -- from 100a to 200a makes the most amount of sense, together with a sub-panel or new replacement panel if you need more breaker space.

Otherwise I see no reason not to use this EVSE as your Leaf's normal day-to-day charging station connected to a carefully located (the cable's length is about 18 feet) 14-50R receptacle on a 50a 240v circuit (my recommendation as well as Nissan's). I suggest normally leaving it plugged in at your house and taking it with you on a trip only if you foresee being able to use the L2 functionality like at an RV campsite. If you feel uncomfortable not carrying an emergency EVSE for L1 charging, I recommend buying a used (2013 or later is best) Nissan one (and I suggest one that is unaltered) from eBay, etc. For reasons of safety I do NOT agree that one whose amperage can be adjusted is desirable -- just respect Murphy's Law. Do you really want the ability to perhaps accidentally (and easily) overload a charging circuit and just rely on its breaker to prevent overheating/damaging its insulation?

For other info/recommendations about your EVSE, look at other threads about it.
 
One sure sign that your service needs to be upgraded may be your main breaker starts tripping (assuming the breaker is sound).

If you add up all the maximum Watts of all your power hungry appliances that might be on at the same time, plus the estimated Watts of your lights, etc usage, I believe this total should ideally be less than your service (100a @ 240v = 24,000W and 200a @ 240v = 48,000W) or you risk overloading your service. The NEC load calculation is somewhat complicated and it very well may not estimate your actual maximum attained load if you like to do a lot at the same time. The following may prompt one to think more about this issue.

Example (not sure all of these are typical):
7200W -- 30a -- EVSE
10000W -- Range (oven + all 4 eyes on)
1200W -- Dishwasher
1200W -- Washing Machine
4000W -- Electric Dryer
3500W -- A/C compressor
1200W -- A/C Blower
1800W -- Hair Dryer
---------
30,100 -- Total

and clearly more could be added in.
 
OP here,

As usual, the discussion here is extremely helpful. I learn multiple things every time.

I will investigate the breaker issue in more detail. I see I am incorrect about the 200 Amp panel, at least in so far as I described it as standard requirement - that might just be specific to me and my current electrical setup in my home. (I may be out of breaker space as well, I'll look into this.)

Good to know the EVSE that comes with the 2018 Leaf can do the job, though as pointed out, it might be helpful to have a second one for travel.

Many thanks!
 
MikeD said:
For reasons of safety I do NOT agree that one whose amperage can be adjusted is desirable -- just respect Murphy's Law. Do you really want the ability to perhaps accidentally (and easily) overload a charging circuit and just rely on its breaker to prevent overheating/damaging its insulation?

Teslas may have their issues, but one that I have NOT heard about is their OEM EVSE thinking more current is available to pull from the circuit than is actually there.

One EVSE that is adjustable is the GE Durastation, but it does so via jumpers inside the case. So you have to open it up to change how much it can draw, so it can't accidentally switch to a higher draw. I do agree with you that units that do so via an app (JuiceBox for example) might be asking for trouble.

Zugzwang said:
(I may be out of breaker space as well, I'll look into this.)

Relying on empty breaker slots as an indication of unused capacity is a lot like relying on unused checks as an indication of how much money is left in your checking account.

FWIW I still have two full-size slots still unused in my 125 amp panel, but per my electrician my 30 amp circuit for the EVSE has it "maxed" out in capacity.
 
RonDawg: Thanks for bringing up the Tesla EVSE as being an exemplary design, as it prompted me to revisit Tesla's website on EVSE user/installation information.

Which EVSE are you referring to? If it is their UMC (Universal Mobile Connector), I went to that documentation and noticed that the 14-50 adapter for their current design no longer enables a current draw of 40a (which I recall being the case maybe a year ago when I last looked at the then current UMC documentation) -- it appears to have been reduced to 32a even though they still specify only using a 50a circuit. They also talk about both a Gen 1 and 2 UMC.

I also looked for relevant Tesla user commentary, and although I can't speak to how to recognize reliable commentary, one poster recently wrote the following:

"... Btw, I commend Tesla for finally fixing the mobile connector. The first generation had a lot of safety problems - their detachable plug mechanism just wasn’t designed robustly enough. This new gen 2 system looks great. AND they finally have adapters for SIX plug types. Finally!!!".

And another just before that:

"If you search this forum for melted UMC connectors, you may have your answer to your question ["New UMC 14/50 limited to 32 amps... WHY?!"] on the power reduction. The previous generation of UMC was designed in such a way with the removable plugs that you could get a poor connection. Coupled with a 40 amp output, that was a recipe for overheating. How many times were the plugs recalled and redesigned? Twice? That's some serious liability to sell a product that has heating/melting issues like that...I haven't seen the new generation unit yet, but I'm betting it runs cooler, and isn't prone to coming out of the wall receptacle as easy, etc... ".

I believe Nissan has avoided these issues with its portable EVSE designs, especially by apparently including a mechanism for detecting excessive temperature at the input plug and automatically reducing its EVSE's maximum current draw and/or shutting down with an appropriate light fault code. This is a major reason for my recommending only unaltered Nissan portable EVSEs for 2018 Leaf buyers who want just an L1 to carry with them.

BTW I am not familiar with how any Tesla EV interacts with its charging EVSE, so I may have misunderstood the point you were trying to make with your last post, so please let me know...
 
Of all the issues that Tesla has had, if there was an issue with the UMC (which is what I was thinking of), for some reason it hasn't been mentioned much outside of Tesla forums. The info you've posted is the first I've heard of it.

Perhaps Nissan was correct after all in not providing the same level of flexibility with their EVSE.

BTW our own Tony Williams is still advertising the JESLA (a UMC adapted to use a J1772 handle) as being able to supply up to 40 amps: https://shop.quickchargepower.com/JESLA-is-THE-40-amp-J1772-portable-charging-solution-JESLA.htm
 
i tapped an outlet off my dryer (30a circuit) and bought a 200$ 3.8kw (16amp) EVSE. No major wiring needed, just two surface mount outlet boxes from home depot to plug into the original dryer outlet. Just have to keep in mind to not turn both on at the same time or the breaker will trip.

that is probably the cheapest way to get L2 at home, if you need 6.6kw L2 then you will need to add a 40 amp breaker which can get more involved depending on where your panel is. If your panel is in the garage its pretty much a piece of cake though.

Marko
 
smkettner: My Square D QO breaker panel doesn't provide for "double breakers" and I'm not knowledgeable about any other panels -- can you mention some panels that do?
 
MikeD said:
smkettner: My Square D QO breaker panel doesn't provide for "double breakers" and I'm not knowledgeable about any other panels -- can you mention some panels that do?

I'm not smkettner but he may be referring to something called a "tandem breaker" which is two separate breakers, controlling two separate circuits, but in one housing that fits in one slot: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-2-15-Amp-Single-Pole-Tandem-Circuit-Breaker-HOMT1515CP/202353320

square-d-tandem-breakers-homt1515cp-64_1000.jpg


More on tandem breakers: http://www.startribune.com/how-to-know-when-tandem-circuit-breakers-can-be-used-aka-cheater-breakers/140688183/

My Crouse-Hinds panel has variant of the above, but it is a double-pole, 240 volt 30 amp (for the central A/C) breaker, so it only takes up one slot rather than the usual two. For my EVSE, my electrician ended up just using two slots for a traditional double-pole breaker.

Some panels allow for a "1/2 breaker" which is literally a standard, single pole breaker but 1/2 the width, allowing two to be put in the same slot: https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Q-Line-20-Amp-1-2-in-Single-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-THQP120/100174218

ge-1-pole-breakers-thqp120-64_1000.jpg


Except for one GFCI breaker for the bathrooms which takes up an entire slot, all of the 120 volt circuits in my Crouse-Hinds panel use the 1/2 width breakers.
 
Some Square D panels don't accept the nice single slot 2 pole(240v) breakers, it has to do with the buss design. My mothers house used such a SD panel, and was FULL when I went to install a 30a 240v outlet for her Leaf :x While I couldn't find single slot 2 pole breakers I was able to find single slot 2 breakers(2 separate flippers but on the same phase, so good for 2 120v circuits but not 240v between them). So what I ended up having to do was to replace several full sized single pole breakers with these double breakers for some of the existing 120v circuits and then with the newly opened space, install a double slot 240v breaker. Ended up costing fair bit more($100) than if they had sold the breaker I wanted but works none the less. Note moving breakers around isn't as easy as it might sound, you need to make sure none of your runs are sharing a neutral wire(like was done in my mother's house) as if you do it wrong, you could potentially have double the draw on some of your neutrals, something that would NOT be Kosher!
I much prefer the design of my GE panel, easy to find 1/2 size 120v breakers and also 240v breakers that take up the same size as a regular sized 120v breaker, unfortunately for the most part you have to use the same brand breaker as your panel is and in the case of Square D you even need to know the type of breakers your panel uses, IOW any SD breaker won't work, you need to know the model of breaker your panel uses.
 
My Squars D labeled Eaton (company gobbler) provides for double breakers in all slots. It uses BR type breakers. I do not know what the cheaper HomeTime units provide.

There should be a label at the panel telling which slots support double breakers.
 
Nearly all home units have that breakers push in. The only screwed in breaker is the main if that. If you use a little care it is easy to switch out but only use listed breakers. Non listed ones may fit but they void the NEC listing. Also not all slots have the current available to support double breakers. Read the label.
 
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