RonDawg
Posts: 2801
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Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Level 2 Home Charging Question

Fri May 25, 2018 9:22 am

MikeD wrote:For reasons of safety I do NOT agree that one whose amperage can be adjusted is desirable -- just respect Murphy's Law. Do you really want the ability to perhaps accidentally (and easily) overload a charging circuit and just rely on its breaker to prevent overheating/damaging its insulation?


Teslas may have their issues, but one that I have NOT heard about is their OEM EVSE thinking more current is available to pull from the circuit than is actually there.

One EVSE that is adjustable is the GE Durastation, but it does so via jumpers inside the case. So you have to open it up to change how much it can draw, so it can't accidentally switch to a higher draw. I do agree with you that units that do so via an app (JuiceBox for example) might be asking for trouble.

Zugzwang wrote:(I may be out of breaker space as well, I'll look into this.)


Relying on empty breaker slots as an indication of unused capacity is a lot like relying on unused checks as an indication of how much money is left in your checking account.

FWIW I still have two full-size slots still unused in my 125 amp panel, but per my electrician my 30 amp circuit for the EVSE has it "maxed" out in capacity.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

MikeD
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:14 am
Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 592

Re: Level 2 Home Charging Question

Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 pm

RonDawg: Thanks for bringing up the Tesla EVSE as being an exemplary design, as it prompted me to revisit Tesla's website on EVSE user/installation information.

Which EVSE are you referring to? If it is their UMC (Universal Mobile Connector), I went to that documentation and noticed that the 14-50 adapter for their current design no longer enables a current draw of 40a (which I recall being the case maybe a year ago when I last looked at the then current UMC documentation) -- it appears to have been reduced to 32a even though they still specify only using a 50a circuit. They also talk about both a Gen 1 and 2 UMC.

I also looked for relevant Tesla user commentary, and although I can't speak to how to recognize reliable commentary, one poster recently wrote the following:

"... Btw, I commend Tesla for finally fixing the mobile connector. The first generation had a lot of safety problems - their detachable plug mechanism just wasn’t designed robustly enough. This new gen 2 system looks great. AND they finally have adapters for SIX plug types. Finally!!!".

And another just before that:

"If you search this forum for melted UMC connectors, you may have your answer to your question ["New UMC 14/50 limited to 32 amps... WHY?!"] on the power reduction. The previous generation of UMC was designed in such a way with the removable plugs that you could get a poor connection. Coupled with a 40 amp output, that was a recipe for overheating. How many times were the plugs recalled and redesigned? Twice? That's some serious liability to sell a product that has heating/melting issues like that...I haven't seen the new generation unit yet, but I'm betting it runs cooler, and isn't prone to coming out of the wall receptacle as easy, etc... ".

I believe Nissan has avoided these issues with its portable EVSE designs, especially by apparently including a mechanism for detecting excessive temperature at the input plug and automatically reducing its EVSE's maximum current draw and/or shutting down with an appropriate light fault code. This is a major reason for my recommending only unaltered Nissan portable EVSEs for 2018 Leaf buyers who want just an L1 to carry with them.

BTW I am not familiar with how any Tesla EV interacts with its charging EVSE, so I may have misunderstood the point you were trying to make with your last post, so please let me know...

RonDawg
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Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
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Re: Level 2 Home Charging Question

Fri May 25, 2018 6:05 pm

Of all the issues that Tesla has had, if there was an issue with the UMC (which is what I was thinking of), for some reason it hasn't been mentioned much outside of Tesla forums. The info you've posted is the first I've heard of it.

Perhaps Nissan was correct after all in not providing the same level of flexibility with their EVSE.

BTW our own Tony Williams is still advertising the JESLA (a UMC adapted to use a J1772 handle) as being able to supply up to 40 amps: https://shop.quickchargepower.com/JESLA ... -JESLA.htm
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

smkettner
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Level 2 Home Charging Question

Fri May 25, 2018 7:15 pm

If you are out of slots you can get some double breakers and if they are all doubles you can add a small surface mount subpanel.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

estomax
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:23 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 424033
Location: Seattle

Re: Level 2 Home Charging Question

Fri May 25, 2018 8:15 pm

i tapped an outlet off my dryer (30a circuit) and bought a 200$ 3.8kw (16amp) EVSE. No major wiring needed, just two surface mount outlet boxes from home depot to plug into the original dryer outlet. Just have to keep in mind to not turn both on at the same time or the breaker will trip.

that is probably the cheapest way to get L2 at home, if you need 6.6kw L2 then you will need to add a 40 amp breaker which can get more involved depending on where your panel is. If your panel is in the garage its pretty much a piece of cake though.

Marko
2013 Leaf SL Premium
27k, 93% SoH 2/17 32k, 96% SoH 6/17
46k, 94% SoH 2/18 52k, 88% SoH 6/18

MikeD
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Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:14 am
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Leaf Number: 592

Re: Level 2 Home Charging Question

Fri May 25, 2018 8:22 pm

smkettner: My Square D QO breaker panel doesn't provide for "double breakers" and I'm not knowledgeable about any other panels -- can you mention some panels that do?

RonDawg
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Re: Level 2 Home Charging Question

Fri May 25, 2018 11:26 pm

MikeD wrote:smkettner: My Square D QO breaker panel doesn't provide for "double breakers" and I'm not knowledgeable about any other panels -- can you mention some panels that do?


I'm not smkettner but he may be referring to something called a "tandem breaker" which is two separate breakers, controlling two separate circuits, but in one housing that fits in one slot: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Ho ... /202353320

Image

More on tandem breakers: http://www.startribune.com/how-to-know- ... 140688183/

My Crouse-Hinds panel has variant of the above, but it is a double-pole, 240 volt 30 amp (for the central A/C) breaker, so it only takes up one slot rather than the usual two. For my EVSE, my electrician ended up just using two slots for a traditional double-pole breaker.

Some panels allow for a "1/2 breaker" which is literally a standard, single pole breaker but 1/2 the width, allowing two to be put in the same slot: https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Q-Line-2 ... /100174218

Image

Except for one GFCI breaker for the bathrooms which takes up an entire slot, all of the 120 volt circuits in my Crouse-Hinds panel use the 1/2 width breakers.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

jjeff
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Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Level 2 Home Charging Question

Sat May 26, 2018 5:57 am

Some Square D panels don't accept the nice single slot 2 pole(240v) breakers, it has to do with the buss design. My mothers house used such a SD panel, and was FULL when I went to install a 30a 240v outlet for her Leaf :x While I couldn't find single slot 2 pole breakers I was able to find single slot 2 breakers(2 separate flippers but on the same phase, so good for 2 120v circuits but not 240v between them). So what I ended up having to do was to replace several full sized single pole breakers with these double breakers for some of the existing 120v circuits and then with the newly opened space, install a double slot 240v breaker. Ended up costing fair bit more($100) than if they had sold the breaker I wanted but works none the less. Note moving breakers around isn't as easy as it might sound, you need to make sure none of your runs are sharing a neutral wire(like was done in my mother's house) as if you do it wrong, you could potentially have double the draw on some of your neutrals, something that would NOT be Kosher!
I much prefer the design of my GE panel, easy to find 1/2 size 120v breakers and also 240v breakers that take up the same size as a regular sized 120v breaker, unfortunately for the most part you have to use the same brand breaker as your panel is and in the case of Square D you even need to know the type of breakers your panel uses, IOW any SD breaker won't work, you need to know the model of breaker your panel uses.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

GlennD
Forum Supporter
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Leaf Number: 410357
Location: Anaheim

Re: Level 2 Home Charging Question

Sat May 26, 2018 11:24 am

My Squars D labeled Eaton (company gobbler) provides for double breakers in all slots. It uses BR type breakers. I do not know what the cheaper HomeTime units provide.

There should be a label at the panel telling which slots support double breakers.
2012 Cayenne Red SL traded for:
2013 Pearl White SL Premium
Traded for a Cirrus White 2014 Mercedes B (totaled)
2016 Urano Gray eGolf SEL w/ drive assist
Loved the VW but it sat too low for my old body
Back to a Cirrus White 2017 B250e

GlennD
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Leaf Number: 410357
Location: Anaheim

Re: Level 2 Home Charging Question

Sat May 26, 2018 11:31 am

Nearly all home units have that breakers push in. The only screwed in breaker is the main if that. If you use a little care it is easy to switch out but only use listed breakers. Non listed ones may fit but they void the NEC listing. Also not all slots have the current available to support double breakers. Read the label.
2012 Cayenne Red SL traded for:
2013 Pearl White SL Premium
Traded for a Cirrus White 2014 Mercedes B (totaled)
2016 Urano Gray eGolf SEL w/ drive assist
Loved the VW but it sat too low for my old body
Back to a Cirrus White 2017 B250e

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