jacksonb
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 9:15 am
Delivery Date: 29 Jul 2018

Battery in cold temps

Tue May 29, 2018 9:21 am

Hi there,
I searched the forum but couldn't found exactly what I was looking for so hoping someone can quickly give me their advice.

Looking at leasing a 2018 Leaf SV. I was talking to a mechanic and he tried to tell me I should think twice as the range that the manufacturers say you get on a battery charge is much less than advertised. He especially warned against the range in the winter as it will likely not get more than 100km on a charge.

Can anyone clarify their experiences with the battery in cold (and hot) temps?

I live in Southern Ontario so we tend to hit both ends of the temperature spectrum throughout the year.

Any guidance would be great as I am meeting with the dealer tonight!

Thanks very much

goldbrick
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Battery in cold temps

Tue May 29, 2018 10:36 am

A lot depends on the road conditions, how you drive, average speed, etc. but I would say 100km is easily done with a 30kWh Leaf in the winter so the newer 40kWh 2018 Leaf should absolutely have no trouble.

What is unknown is how much capacity will be lost by the battery. The battery has its maximum range when new and will lose (X?) percent of that range per year. X varies quite a bit but in general in cooler climates it is lower so in Ontario I think you would be safe to use a value of 5-10% range loss per year.

How much range do you need? How long is the lease? After 3 years I would expect the range to be > 75% of original in your climate. Factor in maybe an 20% loss factor for cold weather and go from there. Of course, if there is 6" of snow on the ground and you're heading into a 30kph headwind, that will hurt range quite a bit too.

jacksonb
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 9:15 am
Delivery Date: 29 Jul 2018

Re: Battery in cold temps

Tue May 29, 2018 1:02 pm

Lease would be 3 years.

On a typical day to day basis I drive 25km each way to work. There are no charging stations at work (I teach at a high school). So I think I would be fine getting to and from work. But my family lives approx 70km away so I'm just trying to think of those times when I need to make further drives and whether that is going to become a real pain to have to stop partway through to charge.

Thanks for the information you provided. I really hope I would be able to get more than 100km in winter though. That seems relatively short or else charging multiple times in one day would become a pain! Perhaps I'm not ready for the switch from gas to electric!

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ksnogas2112
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:56 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 021881
Location: Lenexa KS (Kansas City)
Contact: Website

Re: Battery in cold temps

Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:11 am

The bigger issue will be how much heat you use in the cold temps. Below 40*F (IIRC) the heat is the old style resistance heater which uses a lot of energy and that will impact your range more than a cold battery. The reason a cold battery affects range is that it doesn't transfer energy as efficiently and you get virtually 0 regeneration on braking. I would expect 70km to be safe even in the cold but bundle up.
Tom in KS
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EnigmaEV
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 9:52 am
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 301349
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: Battery in cold temps

Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:41 am

A little late for the OP's decision, but here are some of my real world stats driving the 2018 Leaf on Saskatchewan highways:
-climate control was used to keep the car comfortable so no freezing or baking
-car is kept in a garage (around 0C at coldest) and preheated on cold days
-SOC and range (GOM) readings are from the car instruments - Leaf Spy numbers are quite different
-all the trips except #1 are return so elevation changes are negligible

Trip #1 - fairly cold and relatively high winds
Distance: 132 km (110 km/h on highway, reduced to 90 km/h to conserve energy mid way through trip)
SOC: 100% => 10%
GOM: 251 km => 32 km
Average speed: 85 km/h
Efficiency: 232 wH/km
Temperature: -10C
Weather: crosswind @ 30 km/h gusting 50, blowing snow

Trip #2 - typical cold weather trip
Distance: 106 km (mix of city/freeway/highway)
SOC: 100% => 21%
GOM: 200 km => 63 km
Average speed: 72 km/h
Efficiency: 229 wH/km
Temperature: -20C
Weather: crosswind @ 20 km/h, sunny

Trip #3 - high winds, stormy, snow packed/drifted roads
Distance: 106 km (mix of city/freeway/highway)
SOC: 98% => 24%
GOM: 244 km => 51 km
Average speed: 58 km/h
Efficiency: 235 wH/km
Temperature: -5C
Weather: crosswind @ 30 km/h gusting 50, blowing snow, roads snow packed

Trip #4 - warm weather, light wind
Distance: 107 km (mix of city/freeway/highway)
SOC: 100% => 50%
GOM: 295 km => 125 km
Average speed: 66 km/h
Efficiency: 166 wH/km
Temperature: 15C
Weather: negligible winds, mix of sun and cloud

Trip #5 - hot weather (for Saskatchewan), light wind
Distance: 104 km (mix of city/freeway/highway)
SOC: 100% => 56%
GOM: 306 km => 151 km
Average speed: 73 km/h
Efficiency: 152 wH/km
Temperature: 31C
Weather: negligible winds, sunny

Other observations:
-GOM readings are unreliable and fluctuate wildly - thus the "Guess-O-Meter"
-wind, especially when the air is cold and dense, is a huge factor in range - crosswind seems worse than headwind
-the heat pump is very efficient (usually consuming less than 500W) - even at temperatures of -20C, with the spring sun shining, the heat pump was able to keep up quite well - this would be not be the case on a cold, dark night in January though
-in cold weather regen is reduced, but after 10-15 km of driving it is back to normal
-Nissan is quite conservative with SOC, especially at lower percentages
2018 Leaf SL, 12,633 km, 94.81% SOH, 117.88 Hx, 109.449 AHr

ElectricEddy
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:42 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2016
Leaf Number: 313506
Location: Nanaimo, B.C.

Re: Battery in cold temps

Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:13 pm

"EnigmaEV" driving the 2018 Leaf on Saskatchewan
-all the trips except #1 are return so elevation changes are negligible


Do you mean there is more than one elevation in Saskatchewan? :)

Just kidding, congratulations on the move to EV. I would love to see these stats in January
Pearl White Sl
mfd date 09/16

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9851
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Battery in cold temps

Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:03 pm

Below 40*F (IIRC) the heat is the old style resistance heater which uses a lot of energy and that will impact your range more than a cold battery.


It isn't quite that bad. Below 40F the range will decrease noticeably, but the heat pump is still active, with resistance heat also running. It isn't until you get down into the mid teens Fahrenheit that the resistance heater takes over to the point where range is the same as with the resistance heat-only Leaf S. I and others have found that about 25F is the point where you aren't getting a large benefit from the heat pump.
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