Astros
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:21 am
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 306739
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: 250 mile highway trips in a 2018 Leaf?

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:44 pm

I have a 2018 Leaf, and a 250 mile trip in one day is easy. Anything over 350 miles gets very slow, though. If you pump up your tires to 42 psi you should be able to easily get 3.9 miles/kWh at 65 mph on a relatively level freeway, and that will get you about 135 miles to the low battery warning from full. You should still have around 15 miles of range left at that point.

Here is a simple example of how your trip might go: drive 100 miles to the first charger and charge at 45kW for 40 minutes. Then drive another 100 miles and charge at ~26kW for 30 minutes. Finally drive your remaining 50 miles and you should get to your destination with ~35 miles to spare on the GOM. If it's really hot out, you might only get 20kW on the second charge, but you can still do a 30 minute charge if you're willing to pull in to your destination closer to empty.
Jade Frost 2018 SV

jonathanfields4ever
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:55 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Feb 2018
Location: Kyoto

Re: 250 mile highway trips in a 2018 Leaf?

Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:44 am

We made a 275 mile trip from our house to Disney World with just one charge along the way on mostly highway. I think you’re being overly conservative with the 3.9mi/kWh estimate. We charged at 50kW along the way for maybe 40 minutes while we ate lunch at a service area. To be fair, the traffic was pretty bad, so our speed wasn’t amazing. I usually set the cruise control to max and just go, but this time we mostly stayed between 55 and 65. That probably helped a lot. I think we were on the road a total of 6 hours, stopping 3 times.

I think even if you’re in a hurry, you could get 4.4mi/kWh with relative ease.

Edit: I’ve done an 80 mile round trip, 60 of which is highway, every Monday and Tuesday this month. It looks like I averaged 4.9mi/kWh on those days. That’s with A/C. Your 3.9mi/kWh estimate is probably a good number to use for careful planning, but you’ll likely do much better in practice.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13232
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 250 mile highway trips in a 2018 Leaf?

Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:11 am

Astros wrote:I have a 2018 Leaf, and a 250 mile trip in one day is easy. Anything over 350 miles gets very slow, though. If you pump up your tires to 42 psi you should be able to easily get 3.9 miles/kWh at 65 mph on a relatively level freeway, and that will get you about 135 miles to the low battery warning from full. You should still have around 15 miles of range left at that point.

Here is a simple example of how your trip might go: drive 100 miles to the first charger and charge at 45kW for 40 minutes. Then drive another 100 miles and charge at ~26kW for 30 minutes. Finally drive your remaining 50 miles and you should get to your destination with ~35 miles to spare on the GOM. If it's really hot out, you might only get 20kW on the second charge, but you can still do a 30 minute charge if you're willing to pull in to your destination closer to empty.


I did a trip setting cruise control to 65 mph on car and averaged 4.4-4.6 miles per kwh. Your scenario will work but includes excessive time charging.

Fast charge rates are controlled by two things;

starting battery temps
SOC during the charge.

So stopping after 100 miles will get you 45 KW for probably 10-15 mins or so or until you hit roughly 63% SOC. I would STRONGLY recommend you not do the first QC until AT LEAST 150 miles. Taking a risk? We all have our comfort levels but let me say, the risk is very small.

As we know, the 2018 now has 3 battery warnings before Turtle since now the SOC is displayed all the time. It now also goes to "_ _ _" after 1% but this happens well after the car has gone to VLBW or "_ _ _" on the GOM. Without LEAF Spy, this is all quite scary. If you think this will end up being a pitch for LEAF Spy, well u b right because


FYI; from first battery warning to 1%, the range remaining is an astounding 10-15 miles! Anyone who used LEAF Spy on a 24 kwh pack will understand this but the 2018 LEAF hits 1% on the SOC gauge at 48 GID. Number sound familiar? Well it should because that is the EXACT GID that 24 kwh LEAFs hit the FIRST low battery warning. This is how much hidden range you have to use.

I have done 242 miles stopping one time for 30 mins (NCTC limited) and arriving with 20-50 miles to spare. Got ~ 22 kwh mostly because charge started at 4% (on car) 11% on LEAF Spy.

I am getting ready to do an 800 mile trip. In fact, I am leaving in less than an hour. Check my blog for details of other trips.

For more details on differences between the dash and LEAF Spy, start with this one especially the updated section at the end.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/03 ... -leaf.html
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kieran973
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2018

Re: 250 mile highway trips in a 2018 Leaf?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:33 pm

Just to add to other folks' optimism about this.....

I recently rented a 2018 Leaf SV on Turo for 24 hours. I rented it in northern Virginia and put almost 200 miles on it driving through Virginia, Maryland, and a corner of West Virginia. Temperatures were very hot -- mid to high 90's. Here are some notes I took on highway range and charging speeds. My original plan was to test highway range and charging speeds on Route 95, since I often take this interstate between DC and NYC, but the only day the Leaf rental worked out for my schedule was July 3. This being the day before July 4th, and the D.C. area having arguably the worst traffic in the entire US (worse than LA, in my opinion), I decided to change my route up - I drove away from DC/I-95 and made my highway test as rural as possible so as to avoid July 4th traffic. So this was all still done on US interstates, just not I-95. Instead I took I-70, I-270, and I-81.

Also, I apologize that I don't have more exact data. I don't have Leaf Spy, and this was only my second time using DCQC stations, so I had a hard time determining the kW speeds.

Anyway....

Day 1:
Fairfax County, VA
23.7 miles
Start SOC: 100%
End SOC: 88%

Picked up car from Turo owner with 100% SOC, 163 miles of range with AC on. Drove 23.7 miles back to the house where I was staying. This was suburban driving: county parkways and one lane roads with speeds of 35-55 MPH punctuated by a lot of stop lights.

By the time the SOC dropped to 90%, I had gone 20.4 miles. I only drove economically during the second half of these 20.4 miles. During the first half, I was still learning the car, and I definitely mashed the accelerator at least 4 times to test out 0-30 and 30-60 acceleration.

In total I drove 23.7 miles on 12% of SOC (arrived with 88% SOC, 151 miles range).

23.7/.12 = 197.5
20.4/.10 = 204
So it seems that my slightly careless city/suburban range would be about 200 miles.

Trickle charged overnight to 99% SOC.

Day 2:

Trip 1:

Fairfax County, VA to Hagerstown, MD
74.1 miles
Beginning SoC: 99%
End SoC: 58%
74.1 miles on 41% of battery

Speeds mostly at 50-55 mph, some at 60-65 mph. First half of trip was 50-55, with some 45 mph cruising. Maximum efficiency, no stops/braking. Second half of trip had a few short 5-10 mile stretches of 65 and 70 mph zones (I went between 60 and 65 in these zones), plus a big 5ish mile hill climb at 60 mph followed by a descent into Hagerstown.

Range during first half of trip: 200 miles, because the first 20 miles were done on 10% of the battery, and the next 20 miles were done on 10% of the battery, etc. This continued until about 40 miles into the trip. So 50ish mph cruising seems to have a range of about 200 miles and a mi/kWh of 200/38 kWh = 5.26

The first trip overall:
74.1 miles/.41 SOC = 180.73 miles of range at 50-60 mph highway driving. So 50-60 mph cruising would mean: 180.73 miles of range, and 180.73/38kWh = 4.76 mi/kWh

First DC charge:

Started at 58% SOC

Reached 83% in 18 minutes
Reached 84% in 19 minutes
Reached 85% in 20 minutes
Stopped charging at 85% SOC

I messed up a little here, because what I think I should have done was wait the 25 minutes or so and charge to 90%. If I had, I would have started my second DCQC at 40% instead of 35% (see below), and the second charge could have gone up to 75% in 30 minutes or less.

By the way, this charging session was a nightmare. Took me 15 minutes of driving in circles around a mall to find the EVGo QC station. Then 20 more minutes on the phone with EVGo, giving them my credit card number 5 separate times, the charging station starting and stopping five separate times, all of this being done in 98 degree heat in the middle of a parking lot with no shade. I'm assuming (hoping) that when you actually have an EVGo/EZ Charge account, these DCQC stops are more seamless - provided that the station is free, it should take 30 seconds max from when you step out of the car to when the charge begins....

Second trip:

Hagerstown, MD to Fairfax County, VA (via a small corner of West Virginia)
Distance: 76.7 miles
Beginning SoC: 85%
End SoC: 35%

76.7 miles on 50% of charge, 76.7/.5 = 153.4 mile range

First 2/3 of this trip was done mostly at 65 mph, slowing to 60 while going up hills. Average speed was probably 62-63 mph. During the second 1/3 of this trip I had no choice but to get off the interstate and take slightly slower roads: first, a shallow climb up a one lane mountain road at speeds of 40-50 mph, followed by a descent down to county parkways which had 55 mph speed limits and stop lights every few miles. I tried to go 60-65 mph as much as I could, even in 50-55 mph zones, in order to approximate as best as possible interstate driving. Thus, I was probably going 60-65 mph for 75% of this trip. During the first purely, uninterrupted 65 mph stretches, I was consistently averaging 150 miles of range, driving 15 miles on each 10% of battery

Range at 65 mph = 153.4
Efficiency = 153.4/38 = 4.04 mi/kWh

Second DC charge:

Started at 35 SOC%:

10 minutes: 47%
20 minutes: didn’t see, was in a mall
30 minutes: 69%
31 minutes: 70%
33 minutes: 73%
35 minutes: 74%

So if I had charged up to 90% during the first DCQC in 25 minutes, I could have charged to 75% the second time in 30 minutes, for a total of 55 minutes of charging.

Some Conclusions:

1. Even in 98 degree weather, a 250 mile highway trip can be done with 2 DCQC stops and less than 55 minutes of charging time (maybe even 50 minutes)

2. Range at 50-60 mph highway: 180 miles

3. Range at 60-65 mph highway: 150 miles

4. Average overall highway range: 165 miles

5. The ideal way to do a 250 mile trip in a 2018 Leaf would be to drive about 135 miles, DCQC once for 30-40 minutes, then drive the remaining 115 miles. This of course would require having access to a DCQC station 135 miles from where you start, which isn't often the case - sometimes your two options are either 100 miles or 145 miles, as is the case on my NYC to Boston drives.

6. In my opinion, the 2018 Leaf has substantially better ride and handling than the 2017. I could also be imagining this, but the driver's seating position feels a little lower - less mini-van/CUV-ish in the 2018 than it does in the 2017. It's not quite a sedan driver's position, but it does feel halfway between a sedan and CUV.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13232
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 250 mile highway trips in a 2018 Leaf?

Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:22 am

Kieran973 wrote:Just to add to other folks' optimism about this.....

I recently rented a 2018 Leaf SV on Turo for 24 hours. I rented it in northern Virginia and put almost 200 miles on it driving through Virginia, Maryland, and a corner of West Virginia. Temperatures were very hot -- mid to high 90's. Here are some notes I took on highway range and charging speeds. My original plan was to test highway range and charging speeds on Route 95, since I often take this interstate between DC and NYC, but the only day the Leaf rental worked out for my schedule was July 3. This being the day before July 4th, and the D.C. area having arguably the worst traffic in the entire US (worse than LA, in my opinion), I decided to change my route up - I drove away from DC/I-95 and made my highway test as rural as possible so as to avoid July 4th traffic. So this was all still done on US interstates, just not I-95. Instead I took I-70, I-270, and I-81.

Also, I apologize that I don't have more exact data. I don't have Leaf Spy, and this was only my second time using DCQC stations, so I had a hard time determining the kW speeds.

Anyway....

Day 1:
Fairfax County, VA
23.7 miles
Start SOC: 100%
End SOC: 88%

Picked up car from Turo owner with 100% SOC, 163 miles of range with AC on. Drove 23.7 miles back to the house where I was staying. This was suburban driving: county parkways and one lane roads with speeds of 35-55 MPH punctuated by a lot of stop lights.

By the time the SOC dropped to 90%, I had gone 20.4 miles. I only drove economically during the second half of these 20.4 miles. During the first half, I was still learning the car, and I definitely mashed the accelerator at least 4 times to test out 0-30 and 30-60 acceleration.

In total I drove 23.7 miles on 12% of SOC (arrived with 88% SOC, 151 miles range).

23.7/.12 = 197.5
20.4/.10 = 204
So it seems that my slightly careless city/suburban range would be about 200 miles.

Trickle charged overnight to 99% SOC.

Day 2:

Trip 1:

Fairfax County, VA to Hagerstown, MD
74.1 miles
Beginning SoC: 99%
End SoC: 58%
74.1 miles on 41% of battery

Speeds mostly at 50-55 mph, some at 60-65 mph. First half of trip was 50-55, with some 45 mph cruising. Maximum efficiency, no stops/braking. Second half of trip had a few short 5-10 mile stretches of 65 and 70 mph zones (I went between 60 and 65 in these zones), plus a big 5ish mile hill climb at 60 mph followed by a descent into Hagerstown.

Range during first half of trip: 200 miles, because the first 20 miles were done on 10% of the battery, and the next 20 miles were done on 10% of the battery, etc. This continued until about 40 miles into the trip. So 50ish mph cruising seems to have a range of about 200 miles and a mi/kWh of 200/38 kWh = 5.26

The first trip overall:
74.1 miles/.41 SOC = 180.73 miles of range at 50-60 mph highway driving. So 50-60 mph cruising would mean: 180.73 miles of range, and 180.73/38kWh = 4.76 mi/kWh

First DC charge:

Started at 58% SOC

Reached 83% in 18 minutes
Reached 84% in 19 minutes
Reached 85% in 20 minutes
Stopped charging at 85% SOC

I messed up a little here, because what I think I should have done was wait the 25 minutes or so and charge to 90%. If I had, I would have started my second DCQC at 40% instead of 35% (see below), and the second charge could have gone up to 75% in 30 minutes or less.

By the way, this charging session was a nightmare. Took me 15 minutes of driving in circles around a mall to find the EVGo QC station. Then 20 more minutes on the phone with EVGo, giving them my credit card number 5 separate times, the charging station starting and stopping five separate times, all of this being done in 98 degree heat in the middle of a parking lot with no shade. I'm assuming (hoping) that when you actually have an EVGo/EZ Charge account, these DCQC stops are more seamless - provided that the station is free, it should take 30 seconds max from when you step out of the car to when the charge begins....

Second trip:

Hagerstown, MD to Fairfax County, VA (via a small corner of West Virginia)
Distance: 76.7 miles
Beginning SoC: 85%
End SoC: 35%

76.7 miles on 50% of charge, 76.7/.5 = 153.4 mile range

First 2/3 of this trip was done mostly at 65 mph, slowing to 60 while going up hills. Average speed was probably 62-63 mph. During the second 1/3 of this trip I had no choice but to get off the interstate and take slightly slower roads: first, a shallow climb up a one lane mountain road at speeds of 40-50 mph, followed by a descent down to county parkways which had 55 mph speed limits and stop lights every few miles. I tried to go 60-65 mph as much as I could, even in 50-55 mph zones, in order to approximate as best as possible interstate driving. Thus, I was probably going 60-65 mph for 75% of this trip. During the first purely, uninterrupted 65 mph stretches, I was consistently averaging 150 miles of range, driving 15 miles on each 10% of battery

Range at 65 mph = 153.4
Efficiency = 153.4/38 = 4.04 mi/kWh

Second DC charge:

Started at 35 SOC%:

10 minutes: 47%
20 minutes: didn’t see, was in a mall
30 minutes: 69%
31 minutes: 70%
33 minutes: 73%
35 minutes: 74%

So if I had charged up to 90% during the first DCQC in 25 minutes, I could have charged to 75% the second time in 30 minutes, for a total of 55 minutes of charging.

Some Conclusions:

1. Even in 98 degree weather, a 250 mile highway trip can be done with 2 DCQC stops and less than 55 minutes of charging time (maybe even 50 minutes)

2. Range at 50-60 mph highway: 180 miles

3. Range at 60-65 mph highway: 150 miles

4. Average overall highway range: 165 miles

5. The ideal way to do a 250 mile trip in a 2018 Leaf would be to drive about 135 miles, DCQC once for 30-40 minutes, then drive the remaining 115 miles. This of course would require having access to a DCQC station 135 miles from where you start, which isn't often the case - sometimes your two options are either 100 miles or 145 miles, as is the case on my NYC to Boston drives.

6. In my opinion, the 2018 Leaf has substantially better ride and handling than the 2017. I could also be imagining this, but the driver's seating position feels a little lower - less mini-van/CUV-ish in the 2018 than it does in the 2017. It's not quite a sedan driver's position, but it does feel halfway between a sedan and CUV.



Nice write up especially for someone without LS. FYI; you have a 10-15 mile (depending on how you drive) buffer of range that the LEAF hides from you. I see closer to 165 miles on a steady (as much as possible since I also have traffic issues) 65 mph
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kieran973
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2018

Re: 250 mile highway trips in a 2018 Leaf?

Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:45 pm

Thanks, Dave. I've seen you mention these hidden 10-15 miles in other posts on MNL, which is definitely good to know about. For one, if we add these 10-15 miles to my own reported highway range results (and revise my mi/kWh averages), I think our numbers are roughly similar. Two, knowing that there's a 10-15 mile buffer hidden in the battery makes me feel a lot more confident about driving at 65 mph to a charging station 145 miles away, which would make my 250 mile trips one DCQC trips....

SageBrush
Posts: 2805
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 250 mile highway trips in a 2018 Leaf?

Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:45 pm

Kieran973 wrote:Thanks, Dave. I've seen you mention these hidden 10-15 miles in other posts on MNL, which is definitely good to know about. For one, if we add these 10-15 miles to my own reported highway range results (and revise my mi/kWh averages), I think our numbers are roughly similar. Two, knowing that there's a 10-15 mile buffer hidden in the battery makes me feel a lot more confident about driving at 65 mph to a charging station 145 miles away, which would make my 250 mile trips one DCQC trips....

If you do, be aware of adverse road conditions or headwinds.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13232
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 250 mile highway trips in a 2018 Leaf?

Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:26 am

SageBrush wrote:
Kieran973 wrote:Thanks, Dave. I've seen you mention these hidden 10-15 miles in other posts on MNL, which is definitely good to know about. For one, if we add these 10-15 miles to my own reported highway range results (and revise my mi/kWh averages), I think our numbers are roughly similar. Two, knowing that there's a 10-15 mile buffer hidden in the battery makes me feel a lot more confident about driving at 65 mph to a charging station 145 miles away, which would make my 250 mile trips one DCQC trips....

If you do, be aware of adverse road conditions or headwinds.


As always, YMMV. If conditions are a possible concern, I would simply reset the trip computer and maintain (or stay in the neighborhood) the efficiency you had averaged. It should be quite the no brainer that your car "will" tell you enough for you to do what you need to do if you simply listen to it.

So lets not come back here saying "I drove the exact same way I have done dozens of times but this time I got stranded..."


But none of this resolves my complete confusion over why anyone would stress themselves to that degree instead of spending $50 for LEAF Spy.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kieran973
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2018

Re: 250 mile highway trips in a 2018 Leaf?

Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:20 pm

Hey Dave, one thing that's bugging me is this guy's highway range test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5DxpaQo7gI

According to him, he set his cruise control to only 60 mph, and then ran the battery down to near 0%, and he only saw a range of about 130 miles. So how do you reconcile that with your own highway range results? Or mine? I don't know what to make of this....

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13232
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 250 mile highway trips in a 2018 Leaf?

Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:06 am

Kieran973 wrote:Hey Dave, one thing that's bugging me is this guy's highway range test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5DxpaQo7gI

According to him, he set his cruise control to only 60 mph, and then ran the battery down to near 0%, and he only saw a range of about 130 miles. So how do you reconcile that with your own highway range results? Or mine? I don't know what to make of this....


YMMV. Saw this a few months back when it was first published. Its winter range test so are the roads dry? I don't recall the details but I would have to say even if not raining roads are likely wet making it worse. Did he use heat? Defrost?

My worst range happened at 135 miles but it was rainy in the morning speeds 65 mph, 3 passengers and a LOT of defrost. Defrost is always needed but after picking up passengers 23 miles into the drive, the need was almost constant. It wasn't that cold, upper 40's. Continued on 65 miles total and had GOM of 55 left.

Return home was solo no rain, (passengers return in company van) at much slower speed, only residual water on road in some places, dry in others, roughly averaging 50 mph for 3rd, 40 mph for 3rd, 70+ for last 3rd. Arrived home, GOM long past the warnings but LEAF Spy said I had nothing to worry about so elapsed distance was 129.8 miles so my guesstimate was about another 5 miles or so. So yeah, its possible.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Return to “New Members & Newbie Questions”