Want a Leaf, what is the best option? First time EV buyer here.

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Rockytherock

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
6
I am looking at a getting a Leaf. Any advice would be appreciated. I am a first time EV buyer. Here is some background.
1. I commute to and from school+work about 25 miles round trip. On heavy driving days its 45 miles.
2. I have charging stations available at my work.
3. I live in a moderate to warm environment,
4. I am the sole driver in the household and a Leaf would be a second car.
5. Our current SUV is nearing the end of reliability and we will be buying a Hybrid SUV in the next year or 2.
6. Whatever leaf we get, it will probably be the S Model.

I have done a lot of research into electric cars and think a Leaf is the best. It's been in production a long time and its darn cute. The second car was going to be a truck, but I like the idea of scooting around in an electric car much better.

My options are.
1. Buy a used Leaf. I've seen a some 2015's with around 20,000 miles at dealerships for around $11K. Car payment would be about $250.
2. Lease a new Leaf. Payment would be about $230 a month w/$4k down. Need to give it back after 3 years or just buy out the lease.
3. Buy a new leaf outright. A bit less affordable, but get $10K in tax credits.

So there you have it. I was all set to buy a used Leaf then I saw the latest lease offers so now I don't know. Any help from Leaf drivers would be appreciated.

Steve
 
Once the 2019 models come out you may be able to get a good deal on a new 2018, otherwise I don't see any hidden strategies that make sense. Used prices seem to be pretty firm as EV's are becoming more mainstream and while the adoption rate may be slow, the supply of used vehicles seems to be lower. That said, the technology is still maturing rapidly so newer cars will be improving at a good clip, although that will be balanced against the probably declining incentives.

I can't really comment on the pros/cons of lease vs purchase since in my case the incentives were so large that the only thing that made sense was to buy. One thing I would note is that the maintenance on a Leaf is negligible so any advantage of not having to worry about maintenance on a leased vehicle is not applicable.

I'm biased since I bought my Leaf but since your mileage is so low, I'd go ahead and try to buy a 2018 for a good price - maybe once the 2019 is announced. If it's your second, around town car, and you don't live in a very hot climate, it should fulfill your needs for a decade with virtually no maintenance besides tires, brake fluid, washer fluid, etc. If you can charge for free at work it can be a practically zero-cost car after the initial investment.

That's how it's working out for me anyway after 1 year of owning my 2017 model S. I live in CO and while I wish I had a heat pump I get by just fine with the silly resistance heater on the model S. For me it wasn't worth the extra $$$ for the next trim level. And by the way, I bet you will love driving the Leaf. 'scooting around' in an electric car is truly a lot of fun.
 
A good 2015 sounds ideal in your situation. A new Leaf is money wasted for your needs. With work charging and your driving needs you could drive this car for a long, long time. I too have work charging and paid about $80 to drive 11k miles last year.

I would consider adding L2 charging at home. The utility of being able to charge fairly quickly is useful on the weekends or an evening you may want to make a trip with an hour or two of notice.
 
The longevity of the 2018 leaf is still unknown (especially in hot climates) while the 2015 is known to be the best leaf battery so far for resisting degradation. If you get a 2018, Lease it, because you won't drive it enough to get a free warranty replacement battery.
 
Don't buy a Leaf until they have thermal management for their battery. Maybe 2019 model? If you are set on a (new) Leaf now, lease it instead. Because of the bad battery reputation, Leaf depreciates quickly. Or buy an older Leaf with new battery replacement or 12 bars but know that it will degrade more rapidly than other manufacturers. Your best bet, buy a car with thermal management.
 
I have to disagree, it's pretty much impossible to find a better used car than a 2015 LEAF - rapid depreciation is awesome if you are purchasing used and want to keep the car!

Given the OP's commute (max 45 miles a day), a 2015 LEAF will do that for the next 5 years for sure, especially since the OP has charging options at work.

If you assume an acquisition cost of $10K, and also assume the OP finances the purchase on a 5 year loan, that's less than $200 per month for the loan. Further assuming 30 miles / dollar of electricity, the monthly cost for electricity is around $35. For the benefit of the doubt, say $250 all in per month (plus insurance, obviously).

Unless there are unexpected, expensive repair costs, the TCO for the LEAF, over 5 years, is going to be around $15K (maybe less).

As I said, hard to beat...
 
As someone who literally just went through the exact same decision making process, i fully agree with alozzy - your commute is short, you have ample charging options - even if the battery degrades, it won't effect your commute. You may even find 14's available for even less which would further lower your payment. Your savings in operating cost will be the same with either vehicle option, so you would greatly benefit from reduced first cost - not to mention that your insurance will also be less on the older vehicle (tho you will likely need to add in registration fees non-lease).

Range anxiety shouldn't be an issue given your commute. Trying to solve for the 2% scenario where you need much greater range will only cost you monthly and then add up greatly over time. Having JUST done this, it is very easy to get range anxiety, BUT, that only exists in reality if you are regularly pushing that 70-80 mile limit. if you aren't, then what are you really buying with that extra $75ish in monthly payments? Only serious degradation would effect your use - you could have a sweet deal on vehicle with virtually zero operation cost beyond the end of your financing...you can't save over gas on the kW you never use.

I would also consider doing the math on what you pay for gas per month and deduct that from your monthly payment less a percentage to account for some charging at home. I have had mine for three weeks now have spent less than $5 on fuel (calculating the kW total charging at home as i have free charging at work like you). hard to beat that from a financial perspective.
 
For the OP: unless you must buy new, or hate the look of the first generation Leaf, I'd buy used. Assuming you can find a 2015 for $11k and paying MSRP for a new Leaf S, that's at least $7k in savings, a nice down payment towards that hybrid SUV you're looking to buy in the future. Leasing is a terrible option in your circumstance, you'll be needing to lease a new car (so new down payment + monthly payments) while still paying for that SUV. Either that, or you'll have to go back to just that hybrid SUV as your sole car (and possibly not be able to commute all-electric, depending on that vehicle's AER).

Evoforce said:
Don't buy a Leaf until they have thermal management for their battery. Maybe 2019 model? If you are set on a (new) Leaf now, lease it instead. Because of the bad battery reputation, Leaf depreciates quickly. Or buy an older Leaf with new battery replacement or 12 bars but know that it will degrade more rapidly than other manufacturers. Your best bet, buy a car with thermal management.

While that may be a wise move in your area, battery degradation is not going to be the same everywhere. I live in LA, and not near the beach, summer temps are generally in the 90's in my area, with occasional triple-digit spurts. Yet I didn't lose my first bar until the 3 year lease was almost over (see my sig line), and this was on a pre-2013 model which is notorious for heat-related degradation.
 
Thank you everyone for your suggestions. As much as we liked the range of a newer leaf, a used leaf seemed the best choice. After lots of looking we found a car that met all our criteria and got it! It's a 2015 with low miles. Honestly when it came down to it, I liked the interior of the previous generation over the 2018s much more and the 85 mile range is more than enough. It's a fun little car and I am happy to be a part of the ev driving community! Thank you for all your help.
 
Pretty much ignore the odometer mileage on a used Leaf. Get LeafSpy and see the SOH. Look at Carfax and determine where the car was shipped to, how long it sat on the lot, and where it lived after that. A car that sat at 100% state-of-charge in the sun on a hot dealer lot for months will have a battery that was pre-degraded, and can be expected to have suffered more than a car that was owned, driven, hopefully garaged and likely at an intermediate SOC most of the time.

Unless you are driving at a *constant* speed, you won't get the range shown on the tables. In normal surface-street driving without heat or AC, even though my average speed will be under 30 MPH, I assume I'll get 4.2 miles per KWh for range prediction. I virtually always average a little better. In what passes for winter in Seattle (temps usually in the 40s, almost constant defogger use required, headlights on most of the time), I assume 3.2 miles per KWh because the accessory loads are a killer, and I DON'T beat that prediction as reliably.

I semi-regularly make a 50 mile round-trip that is 80% freeway driving. If I set the cruise control to 52 MPH (which works OK because most people in WA drive slower than other states I've lived in, and they're mostly not TOO deranged by road rage), without any heat or AC I can make that run in barely over 50% depletion of the state-of-charge (by either the dashboard or LeafSpy). If I go 62 on the outbound leg, I can still be unconcerned about my range, even starting from 80% SOC, but I have to drive slower coming home, meaning 55 MPH or less, if I didn't start closer to 90%. If I did that drive in the dark and in the rain (which I don't, since it's to an outdoor recreation site that is not lighted), even starting at 100% SOC I would be nervous, although I would presumably make it as long as I used only the bare minimum of heat needed to keep the windows clear of condensation.
 
smkettner said:
Get a BOLT. Better range, better battery system.

Or why not just get a Model S, even more range and better battery system.
Or don't mess with something slow, get a Rimac Concept One. Everyone needs almost a mega Watt of propulsion, 1088 hp, top speed of 190 mph, and almost 400 miles of real world range, assuming you don't actually use all but a tiny fraction of that all that power. Price is just a cool million dollars, give or take a bit. Put your name on the list, maybe they will call you and ask for a check.
Or don't cheap out, get a NIO EP9. Over a mega Watt of propulsion. Holds the electric record of 6:45.90 for the Nürburgring Nordschleife. Which the Model S and the Bolt both can't lap once at slower full speed.

Or, buy a used LEAF for a third of the BOLT's price. Once the battery can't do your modest needs, there will be better EVs available, both used and new.
 
smkettner said:
So get a used Bolt. Carmax $29,000 to $35,000.

And for half that, could get a 2016 LEAF SV with 12 capacity bars from an average climate from Carmax. 6 years and 90k miles of battery warranty left.
Unless you need the range of the Bolt, and are willing to spend a lot more, the LEAF is a better deal.
 
smkettner said:
Get a BOLT. Better range, better battery system.

You mean a Volt?

Volts use gasoline, Leafs don't!

I have a 2013 Leaf and I LOVE never buying gasoline! NEVER!!

John Kuthe...
 
smkettner said:
Can the OP do what he needs with three bars gone?

BTDT and it was a PITN.

OP has a second car. One driver household. Buying another car in a few years. Might the OP have a problem driving to work and back, a 25 mile round trip, with 3 bars down? With workplace charging? I doubt it. And with the larger batteries of newer LEAFs? Even less of a worry.

Three bars gone in the next couple of years? Maybe, in a hot climate. OP said moderate to warm climate, and I'm not quite sure what that means...

Probably not as cool of climate as I have, probably not as hot as Orange County. We both got 2014 Leafs about 10 days apart. I've still got mine, and it still has all 12 capacity bars. All bars will probably get though next summer as well, likely will drop first bar in 2020 at about 60k miles. I might learn what 3 bars gone is like in 2025, give or take a few years. I usually don't keep a car much past 10 years, and have driven 10k to 12k per year.

Between your experience and mine there is a wide range. I don't expect the OP to have as good of experience as I have had. Or as bad as yours.
 
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