LeftieBiker
Posts: 9612
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Want a Leaf, what is the best option? First time EV buyer here.

Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:14 am

...and the 85 mile range is more than enough.


That would be at 40MPH. Real world range is more like 70 miles.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

BuckMkII
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Want a Leaf, what is the best option? First time EV buyer here.

Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:37 am

Pretty much ignore the odometer mileage on a used Leaf. Get LeafSpy and see the SOH. Look at Carfax and determine where the car was shipped to, how long it sat on the lot, and where it lived after that. A car that sat at 100% state-of-charge in the sun on a hot dealer lot for months will have a battery that was pre-degraded, and can be expected to have suffered more than a car that was owned, driven, hopefully garaged and likely at an intermediate SOC most of the time.

Unless you are driving at a *constant* speed, you won't get the range shown on the tables. In normal surface-street driving without heat or AC, even though my average speed will be under 30 MPH, I assume I'll get 4.2 miles per KWh for range prediction. I virtually always average a little better. In what passes for winter in Seattle (temps usually in the 40s, almost constant defogger use required, headlights on most of the time), I assume 3.2 miles per KWh because the accessory loads are a killer, and I DON'T beat that prediction as reliably.

I semi-regularly make a 50 mile round-trip that is 80% freeway driving. If I set the cruise control to 52 MPH (which works OK because most people in WA drive slower than other states I've lived in, and they're mostly not TOO deranged by road rage), without any heat or AC I can make that run in barely over 50% depletion of the state-of-charge (by either the dashboard or LeafSpy). If I go 62 on the outbound leg, I can still be unconcerned about my range, even starting from 80% SOC, but I have to drive slower coming home, meaning 55 MPH or less, if I didn't start closer to 90%. If I did that drive in the dark and in the rain (which I don't, since it's to an outdoor recreation site that is not lighted), even starting at 100% SOC I would be nervous, although I would presumably make it as long as I used only the bare minimum of heat needed to keep the windows clear of condensation.
2013 SV no QC, built July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
bar 12 lost 8/21/17
on 8/23/18: AHr = 54.6; SOH = 83.5%; Hx = 78.2; ODO = 49,746

smkettner
Posts: 7205
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Want a Leaf, what is the best option? First time EV buyer here.

Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:33 am

Get a BOLT. Better range, better battery system.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
I-Pace on order for end of 2018 delivery

WetEV
Posts: 2350
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Want a Leaf, what is the best option? First time EV buyer here.

Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:12 am

smkettner wrote:Get a BOLT. Better range, better battery system.


Or why not just get a Model S, even more range and better battery system.
Or don't mess with something slow, get a Rimac Concept One. Everyone needs almost a mega Watt of propulsion, 1088 hp, top speed of 190 mph, and almost 400 miles of real world range, assuming you don't actually use all but a tiny fraction of that all that power. Price is just a cool million dollars, give or take a bit. Put your name on the list, maybe they will call you and ask for a check.
Or don't cheap out, get a NIO EP9. Over a mega Watt of propulsion. Holds the electric record of 6:45.90 for the Nürburgring Nordschleife. Which the Model S and the Bolt both can't lap once at slower full speed.

Or, buy a used LEAF for a third of the BOLT's price. Once the battery can't do your modest needs, there will be better EVs available, both used and new.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

smkettner
Posts: 7205
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Want a Leaf, what is the best option? First time EV buyer here.

Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:49 pm

So get a used Bolt. Carmax $29,000 to $35,000.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
I-Pace on order for end of 2018 delivery

WetEV
Posts: 2350
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Want a Leaf, what is the best option? First time EV buyer here.

Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:15 pm

smkettner wrote:So get a used Bolt. Carmax $29,000 to $35,000.


And for half that, could get a 2016 LEAF SV with 12 capacity bars from an average climate from Carmax. 6 years and 90k miles of battery warranty left.
Unless you need the range of the Bolt, and are willing to spend a lot more, the LEAF is a better deal.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

smkettner
Posts: 7205
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Want a Leaf, what is the best option? First time EV buyer here.

Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:06 pm

Can the OP do what he needs with three bars gone?

BTDT and it was a PITN.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
I-Pace on order for end of 2018 delivery

JohnKuthe
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:49 am
Delivery Date: 22 Mar 2017

Re: Want a Leaf, what is the best option? First time EV buyer here.

Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:35 pm

smkettner wrote:Get a BOLT. Better range, better battery system.


You mean a Volt?

Volts use gasoline, Leafs don't!

I have a 2013 Leaf and I LOVE never buying gasoline! NEVER!!

John Kuthe...

smkettner
Posts: 7205
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Want a Leaf, what is the best option? First time EV buyer here.

Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:40 pm

1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
I-Pace on order for end of 2018 delivery

WetEV
Posts: 2350
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Want a Leaf, what is the best option? First time EV buyer here.

Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:17 pm

smkettner wrote:Can the OP do what he needs with three bars gone?

BTDT and it was a PITN.


OP has a second car. One driver household. Buying another car in a few years. Might the OP have a problem driving to work and back, a 25 mile round trip, with 3 bars down? With workplace charging? I doubt it. And with the larger batteries of newer LEAFs? Even less of a worry.

Three bars gone in the next couple of years? Maybe, in a hot climate. OP said moderate to warm climate, and I'm not quite sure what that means...

Probably not as cool of climate as I have, probably not as hot as Orange County. We both got 2014 Leafs about 10 days apart. I've still got mine, and it still has all 12 capacity bars. All bars will probably get though next summer as well, likely will drop first bar in 2020 at about 60k miles. I might learn what 3 bars gone is like in 2025, give or take a few years. I usually don't keep a car much past 10 years, and have driven 10k to 12k per year.

Between your experience and mine there is a wide range. I don't expect the OP to have as good of experience as I have had. Or as bad as yours.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

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