joeDees
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:46 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2018
Location: I'm In the HOT Central CA sun

Re: Do you think this Leaf will meet my needs

Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:39 am

Ok, I've got a lot to digest here, but I'll start with this.

From what I'm reading here the 2015 lizard pack sounds like the one to get for my really hot (103 degrees yesterday) climate, but the selection is currently really small (2 cars and their both white, which is almost a deal breaker for me) and right at the edge of what I really want to spend.

But there's one thing about my commute and that's pretty much what I'd use the car for. The 2nd half 20 miles of it is done around the 11:00 am hour, when the temperature on these kind of days ranges around 80-90 degrees (while the other half is 2 am-cool), and about 8 miles of it is downhill. I know I read somewhere that some people seem to think that Nissan thinks 80 degrees is really super hot. :shock: Also, the car will be parked in the shade during the hottest part of the days So based on what I said in this paragraph, is it still your opinions that I will really be driving "in really hot conditions" (where a lizard pack will do me the most good)?

And then there's this:

LeftieBiker wrote: Then, in 2015, Nissan came out with the "Lizard Pack" (nicknamed by Nissan). This pack is the best one that Nissan ever produced. Sadly, when Nissan raised the capacity from 24 to 30kwh in 2016, they sacrificed resistance to degradation for more capacity; the 2016 and 2017 30kwh packs are just as bad as the Canary packs, and possibly even a bit worse under some conditions. I've been calling these abominations the "Lettuce Packs" because of their short shelf life, as it were.

So essentially, you want a pack made between April of 2013 and model year 2016.


My question about this is, when you go to buy a new battery under their program (which I figure on one day doing) do you get a "lizard pack" or a "lettuce pack?" And do you get the same thing when your car is '13, '14 or '15?

And that's too bad to hear. For someone like me who needs it for the commute, more capacity (meaning more distance on a trip, right?) is not the issue when you need a certain amount (like 40 miles in my case). Why can't we have the choice, lizard or lettuce? In my case the lizard would totally eat the lettuce!

speedski97
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:44 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Dec 2013
Location: Whittier Ca

Re: Do you think this Leaf will meet my needs

Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:12 am

The problem that I have seen with the EVs for low income buyers, is that the a few dealers are targeting that market. They buy the lowest car to qualify for the program. Then charge as much as they can for it. I talked if a gal charging at the Bakersfield Nissan that bought from car max on the program. The next month the bars dropped off the range was lower then she needed, and she was stuck with a car that she needed to charge outside of work or home. This is not what she wanted, so if I was I was you, I would look at a Volt, Spark with battery cooling for where you live, or a 15 or newer leaf with a few years leaf on the warranty. The battery will drop 2% per year is normal. So keep that in mind as you look at the car. You should look at a newer car with a small payment that will exceed your needs. They can finance a small loan with a large down. You will have to push them on that because the deal is hard for the dealer. I would get with the ORG and talk with people that have bought on this program before. learn from them as they have been in your spot. Good luck.

joeDees
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:46 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2018
Location: I'm In the HOT Central CA sun

Re: Do you think this Leaf will meet my needs

Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:51 pm

speedski97 wrote: I would look at a Volt, Spark with battery cooling for where you live, or a 15 or newer leaf with a few years leaf on the warranty.


I'm going Leaf or not going at all.

speedski97 wrote: I would get with the ORG and talk with people that have bought on this program before. learn from them as they have been in your spot. Good luck.


That's good advice although I doubt they would let me know who I could talk to.

I can, however, make a post here and see if anyone replies, and I think I'll do that.

Thanks

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9062
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Do you think this Leaf will meet my needs

Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:47 pm

joeDees wrote:Ok, I've got a lot to digest here, but I'll start with this.

From what I'm reading here the 2015 lizard pack sounds like the one to get for my really hot (103 degrees yesterday) climate, but the selection is currently really small (2 cars and their both white, which is almost a deal breaker for me) and right at the edge of what I really want to spend.

But there's one thing about my commute and that's pretty much what I'd use the car for. The 2nd half 20 miles of it is done around the 11:00 am hour, when the temperature on these kind of days ranges around 80-90 degrees (while the other half is 2 am-cool), and about 8 miles of it is downhill. I know I read somewhere that some people seem to think that Nissan thinks 80 degrees is really super hot. :shock: Also, the car will be parked in the shade during the hottest part of the days So based on what I said in this paragraph, is it still your opinions that I will really be driving "in really hot conditions" (where a lizard pack will do me the most good)?

And then there's this:

LeftieBiker wrote: Then, in 2015, Nissan came out with the "Lizard Pack" (nicknamed by Nissan). This pack is the best one that Nissan ever produced. Sadly, when Nissan raised the capacity from 24 to 30kwh in 2016, they sacrificed resistance to degradation for more capacity; the 2016 and 2017 30kwh packs are just as bad as the Canary packs, and possibly even a bit worse under some conditions. I've been calling these abominations the "Lettuce Packs" because of their short shelf life, as it were.

So essentially, you want a pack made between April of 2013 and model year 2016.


My question about this is, when you go to buy a new battery under their program (which I figure on one day doing) do you get a "lizard pack" or a "lettuce pack?" And do you get the same thing when your car is '13, '14 or '15?

And that's too bad to hear. For someone like me who needs it for the commute, more capacity (meaning more distance on a trip, right?) is not the issue when you need a certain amount (like 40 miles in my case). Why can't we have the choice, lizard or lettuce? In my case the lizard would totally eat the lettuce!


Current 24kwh replacement packs are Lizard packs. This may change in the future, but for now when you get a new replacement battery for a pre-2016 leaf, you get a Lizard. If you are considering buying a degraded older Leaf and buying a Lizard pack for it, that can work. The problem is finding a good car with a degraded pack that is inexpensive enough to make it worthwhile. As for the temps during your commute, the problem is that the pack will accumulate heat just from the ambient air temps. So while fast charging the car adds heat, and driving hard adds heat, you can't avoid heat buildup by parking the car in the shade. If it's 90F outside the pack is going to get almost hot enough to degrade even while parked in the shade.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

joeDees
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:46 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2018
Location: I'm In the HOT Central CA sun

test

Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:36 pm

test
Last edited by joeDees on Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

joeDees
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:46 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2018
Location: I'm In the HOT Central CA sun

test

Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:12 pm

sorry about the tests-cant figure out how to delete messages
Last edited by joeDees on Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

joeDees
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:46 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2018
Location: I'm In the HOT Central CA sun

Re: Do you think this Leaf will meet my needs

Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:12 pm

LeftieBiker wrote: Current 24kwh replacement packs are Lizard packs. This may change in the future, but for now when you get a new replacement battery for a pre-2016 leaf, you get a Lizard. If you are considering buying a degraded older Leaf and buying a Lizard pack for it, that can work. The problem is finding a good car with a degraded pack that is inexpensive enough to make it worthwhile. As for the temps during your commute, the problem is that the pack will accumulate heat just from the ambient air temps. So while fast charging the car adds heat, and driving hard adds heat, you can't avoid heat buildup by parking the car in the shade. If it's 90F outside the pack is going to get almost hot enough to degrade even while parked in the shade.

OK. It looks like it's "BACK TO PLAN A".

The car I'm getting to look at and will either return or accept is an SL (2013), it's one I really like (as opposed to some that I already know I would have personal problems with) and would cost me around $2040 plus the price of the new lizard battery when the time came, which I would, just to be on the safe side, have to assume would be "immediately" (even though I'd try to get as much out of the old one as I could).

If I try to go 2015, with what I see they have right now, they are just cars I don't like nearly as well (SV and white only) and at like for another $500, but heck, that one has 7000 (55000) more miles AND 12 BARS (get out the LeafSpy, right? That 12 bars may not hold up very long, I'd imagine)! I imagine I might get more battery life before making the future battery switch, but 12 bars with 55,000 miles seems pretty unrealistic, doesn't it? And on of of it all, it doesn't have the quick charger. Or I could get a 2015 S for $1000 less but it has more miles too (3000 miles more, it has 51000). I just don't think I want an S no matter what year we're talking.

So I think this is the way I'm really leaning. 2013 SL (with options, colors and interiors I really like) with 47,000 miles for basically around an eventual $8000 (if I can get the nice new lizard battery for about $6000, is that about right?), while expecting to have to pay for that new battery coming probably not very long in the future. Add about $1500-$2000 for a charger and its about $9500-$10000 total.

So what do you all think of that, does it sound like a pretty reasonable deal?

cwerdna
Posts: 7991
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Do you think this Leaf will meet my needs

Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:26 pm

joeDees wrote:If I try to go 2015, with what I see they have right now, they are just cars I don't like nearly as well (SV and white only) and at like for another $500, but heck, that one has 7000 (55000) more miles AND 12 BARS (get out the LeafSpy, right? That 12 bars may not hold up very long, I'd imagine)! I imagine I might get more battery life before making the future battery switch, but 12 bars with 55,000 miles seems pretty unrealistic, doesn't it?

12 bars at 55K miles on a '15 from a mild climate isn't unrealistic at all.

At viewtopic.php?p=508974#p508974 I pointed to:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 036995594/ in the mild PNW lost his first bar on his '13 at 92.7K miles.

His build month was unknown. I don't know of any build months on '13 US Leafs prior to 1/2013.

But, if a '15 came from a hot climate and still has all 12 bars, that'd raise red flags if the battery is the original. The worst I know of on the '15 "lizard" pack so far are some 3 bar losers at viewtopic.php?f=30&t=24532.

Original replacement cost was viewtopic.php?t=17168. viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25882 is a claim it went up. Since that post, I've seen some posts to the contrary from other service depts. I'd check w/your or a few service depts near you for a quote.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

joeDees
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:46 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2018
Location: I'm In the HOT Central CA sun

Re: Do you think this Leaf will meet my needs

Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:00 pm

cwerdna wrote:Original replacement cost was viewtopic.php?t=17168. viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25882 is a claim it went up. Since that post, I've seen some posts to the contrary from other service depts. I'd check w/your or a few service depts near you for a quote.


WT...heck?!? :x

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9062
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Do you think this Leaf will meet my needs

Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:09 pm

If you can get an otherwise (except the pack) good 2013 SL for about $2k, it is probably worth putting a new Lizard pack in it. Just check for things like failed heater, charging system issues, etc, first. This brings up another issue, though: the early build 2013 Leafs also seem to have a somewhat higher defect rate. March would probably be ok, but a January build might be Iffy, so look to see what if anything was fixed under warranty...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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