wwhitney
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Re: Plug-in EVSE - safer to leave it plugged in all the time, or should I unplug/plug every day?

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:31 pm

MikeD wrote:I very much like the concept that if my device's plug fits into a receptacle (especially one that is on a dedicated circuit), then I can feel confident the circuit will have the capacity of safely supplying the required load to that device.

Let me put it this way: while you may like the concept, that's not the protocol for any circuit, single receptacle or multi-receptacle, per the consensus expressed by the NEC. Anyone plugging in an EVSE to an unfamiliar circuit needs to check the circuit breaker protecting the receptacle if they want to be sure of not overloading the circuit.

Cheers, Wayne

GerryAZ
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Re: Plug-in EVSE - safer to leave it plugged in all the time, or should I unplug/plug every day?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:23 am

GlennD wrote:
MikeD wrote:Kieran973: I just looked at Clipper Creek's info on the LCS-20/LCS-20P that you referred to and noticed that their available plugin versions provide for only the following 4 plugs: NEMA 6-50, 14-50, L6-30, and 14-30

It does not provide a 6-20 version, which I find curious, which I would think is the appropriate plug for you (if you decide plugin). I did see a post from 2016 from someone who installed a NEMA 6-20P on their LCS-20P and stated they had no problem with it. I will try to ask Monday if there is a good reason for no 6-20 option.

BTW note that all lock plugs (like L6-30) are prohibited in the current NEC.


It is the typical Chinese unit lacking GFCI. Using UL recognized components means nothing. The entire unit has to be recognized. As I understand it even making the unit plug in when it was tested for direct wire in means another test..


GlennD,

You are wrong. The Clipper Creek models noted are made in USA, have GFCI protection, and are UL and/or ETL Listed for both USA and Canada.
Gerry
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SageBrush
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Re: Plug-in EVSE - safer to leave it plugged in all the time, or should I unplug/plug every day?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:26 am

Daily wear and tear is a bad idea, all the more so if there is weight on the plug.
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MikeD
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Re: Plug-in EVSE - safer to leave it plugged in all the time, or should I unplug/plug every day?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:21 am

wwhitney: You are not addressing the point that I am trying to make. You only seem to defend the NEC and its (often) arcane rules, suggesting they be followed to the letter, seldom attempting to explain the WHY behind them (which to be fair I have found to be difficult to uncover), when the reality is they are only MINIMUM standards, created and sometimes evolving over time along with experience data and new technology, but perhaps sometimes lagging in its changes due to recognizing the sizable expense involved with certain changes (like GFCI and AFCI technology). This in part explains their arcane-ness tendency, but it seems at the cost of confusion and fud. I am only trying to argue for the expression of reasonably understandable rules-of-thumb, if you will, even if at the cost of being OVER NEC code at times, that people have a chance of understanding and perhaps remembering, for everyone's peace-of-mind. You don't seem to say much about "best practices", and I wish you would...

You wrote "Anyone plugging in an EVSE to an unfamiliar circuit needs to check the circuit breaker protecting the receptacle if they want to be sure of not overloading the circuit.". True enough, but reasoning further do you really want to have ANY circuits in your house that you have to either remember or check the circuit breaker [uh, is it this breaker or is it this one -- I can't read what it says here anymore -- my memory/mind is starting to fail -- etc], because YOU chose to install a receptacle in your house that doesn't self-document its circuit characteristics?

In Kieran973's case, since he hasn't expressed an interest in using this EVSE other than at this apartment (like at RV parks), I suggested for a plug and cord solution that he have installed what seemed to me the most appropriate receptacle, a 6-20R, since it most clearly self-documents, both for him and other EV owners that may follow, that the outlet is 240v, has no neutral, and most likely a dedicated 20a circuit (and not 15a, even though the current NEC appears to allow). Choosing a 14-50, 14-30, or 6-50 receptacle/plug only serves to obscure FOREVER the rating of both the circuit and the EVSE (and for the first two whether or not there is a neutral), and I suggest people avoid that kind of obfuscation when they are able to because they are the one making the relevant choice. (BTW Clipper Creek does not currently appear to provide a NEMA 6-30P option, that you mentioned in another post.)

MikeD
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Re: Plug-in EVSE - safer to leave it plugged in all the time, or should I unplug/plug every day?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:09 am

Kieran973: I would go hardwired for outdoor use. The absolutely NECESSARY GFCI breaker won't be needed, you don't want to have to worry about neighborhood children, less likely to be stolen, etc, etc.

When you are ready to go, it shouldn't be hard to turn off the breaker, open up the outlet box, remove what's necessary in the wiring, and plug up any holes, if you have that stuff already waiting in the outlet box.

GlennD
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Re: Plug-in EVSE - safer to leave it plugged in all the time, or should I unplug/plug every day?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:38 am

I was not talking about Clipper Creek, I know that they comply and are UL approved. I was talking about Chinese EVSE's.

In an other reply I was talking about the Tesla non approved by UL EVSE's.
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wwhitney
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Re: Plug-in EVSE - safer to leave it plugged in all the time, or should I unplug/plug every day?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:03 am

MikeD wrote:You only seem to defend the NEC and its (often) arcane rules, suggesting they be followed to the letter, seldom attempting to explain the WHY behind them

Not all of the rules are defensible, some of them are stupid or arbitrary. However, the NEC does represent the consensus standard, so it is reasonable to base one's expectations on it. My comments about multi-receptacle circuits were meant to provide some insight into the reason behind the NEC rule.

MikeD wrote:YOU chose to install a receptacle in your house that doesn't self-document its circuit characteristics?

If for whatever reason you find it easier to install a 6-30R on a dedicated 20A circuit, it is not hard to document by putting a label on the receptacle face plate that says "20A".

MikeD wrote:(BTW Clipper Creek does not currently appear to provide a NEMA 6-30P option, that you mentioned in another post.)

Earlier in the thread you stated that the Clipper Creek LCS-20/LCS-20P "provide for only the following 4 plugs: NEMA 6-50, 14-50, L6-30, and 14-30". That is the entire reason I suggested putting a 6-30R on a 20A circuit. If the manufacturer's instructions don't say that you can change the cord on an appliance, doing so generally should be avoided, as it is at best an NEC gray area, probably it is prohibited.

Cheers, Wayne

GerryAZ
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Re: Plug-in EVSE - safer to leave it plugged in all the time, or should I unplug/plug every day?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:37 pm

wwhitney wrote:
MikeD wrote:You only seem to defend the NEC and its (often) arcane rules, suggesting they be followed to the letter, seldom attempting to explain the WHY behind them

Not all of the rules are defensible, some of them are stupid or arbitrary. However, the NEC does represent the consensus standard, so it is reasonable to base one's expectations on it. My comments about multi-receptacle circuits were meant to provide some insight into the reason behind the NEC rule.

MikeD wrote:YOU chose to install a receptacle in your house that doesn't self-document its circuit characteristics?

If for whatever reason you find it easier to install a 6-30R on a dedicated 20A circuit, it is not hard to document by putting a label on the receptacle face plate that says "20A".

MikeD wrote:(BTW Clipper Creek does not currently appear to provide a NEMA 6-30P option, that you mentioned in another post.)

Earlier in the thread you stated that the Clipper Creek LCS-20/LCS-20P "provide for only the following 4 plugs: NEMA 6-50, 14-50, L6-30, and 14-30". That is the entire reason I suggested putting a 6-30R on a 20A circuit. If the manufacturer's instructions don't say that you can change the cord on an appliance, doing so generally should be avoided, as it is at best an NEC gray area, probably it is prohibited.

Cheers, Wayne


Mike,
If you check the installation manuals for the Clipper Creek plug-connected units, you will see that their recommended branch circuit overcurrent ratings match their plugs, regardless of output. They are also required to be mounted to the wall so there is no increased danger from using locking plugs.
Gerry
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Kieran973
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Re: Plug-in EVSE - safer to leave it plugged in all the time, or should I unplug/plug every day?

Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:38 pm

Thanks, everyone. I think I'm going to go with the hardwired 16A/240V Clipper Creek lcs-20. This is assuming that the 20 amp circuit can handle 240 volts. I'm not sure if there's any way I can tell without just having the electrician look at the wiring. If the circuit can't handle it, then I'll explore with the electrician either converting the wiring to 240V, or just go with the 16A/120V Clipper Creek acs-20. The electrician gave me an estimate of $700, which seems pretty reasonable given that they're running new wire/piping from a third story apartment down to a ground level EVSE, as well as installing the EVSE.

GlennD
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Re: Plug-in EVSE - safer to leave it plugged in all the time, or should I unplug/plug every day?

Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:58 pm

Kieran973 wrote:Thanks, everyone. I think I'm going to go with the hardwired 16A/240V Clipper Creek lcs-20. This is assuming that the 20 amp circuit can handle 240 volts. I'm not sure if there's any way I can tell without just having the electrician look at the wiring. If the circuit can't handle it, then I'll explore with the electrician either converting the wiring to 240V, or just go with the 16A/120V Clipper Creek acs-20. The electrician gave me an estimate of $700, which seems pretty reasonable given that they're running new wire/piping from a third story apartment down to a ground level EVSE, as well as installing the EVSE.


It is only reasonable if you are not a DIY person. I have pulled permits and run wiring. In California a homeowner can do his own wiring. But not for others. At the city I retired from we did our own electricial work. City stuff is not inspected) so I have done basic wiring. It took forever for the one electrician left to get to our projects.
2012 Cayenne Red SL traded for:
2013 Pearl White SL Premium
Traded for a Cirrus White 2014 Mercedes B (totaled)
2016 Urano Gray eGolf SEL w/ drive assist
Loved the VW but it sat too low for my old body
Back to a Cirrus White 2017 B250e

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