Asking for advice 2015 vs 2016 used LEAF purchase - what is critical to consider?

Well I'll be buying a used LEAF soon. Have determined that it's the car that makes the most sense for us. In a few years when the PHEV mid-sized SUV market has more fully evolved, that will be our 2nd plug in purchase. Hoping our gas car doesn't die before then!!

So I am currently considering both the 2015 and the 2016 year used models.

The "big difference" I know about is that 2015 has the 24kWh battery and the SV and SL in 2016 have the larger 30kWh battery.
I prefer the larger battery. I've read that there was a concern about the quality of the 30kWh battery when the 16's first came out...is that real?

I'm hoping to get something with +/- 25K miles on it. There seem to be a steady stream of them coming off leases all the time.

I won't get a car that has lived in a hotter climate than where I am (California).
I won't get a car that is not a CPO directly from the dealer. I want the extra warranty stuff.

I don't have access to LeafSpy. Am I missing out on really important information when determining the health and welfare of the battery in the used cars I'm looking at? Should I download the software and buy the cables and etc etc?? I guess I'm asking if the "expected range" on a full charge is accurate/enough info. How much does it cost to buy the cables and etc to utilize LeafSpy? I'm not a techie...

There is one that I just saw online at a dealer -- an SV -- with only 13K miles. It came off a 2 year lease a little early!

It has 12 bars.

I looked at the CarFax. It says that the dealer inspected and CPO'd it in April of this year (2018) and it's now SEPTEMBER. I guess it's been sitting around on the lot for a while. Is that bad? How bad? I figure it will make them more desperate to sell it (maybe I can negotiate a lower price?)...but if it is a huge potential battery problem that it's been sitting for 5 months... I won't even bother to go see it (it's a few hours away).

What else should I consider?

Any/all advice you can give would be most helpful!

Thanks Everyone!

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

Yanni said:

The "big difference" I know about is that 2015 has the 24kWh battery and the SV and SL in 2016 have the larger 30kWh battery.
I prefer the larger battery. I've read that there was a concern about the quality of the 30kWh battery when the 16's first came out...is that real?

Click to expand...

The model year '15 "lizard" battery is the best one we know of, so far.

The 30 kWh battery started having people drop capacity bars pretty quickly in hot climates and even some early on in not hot climates. We were past 17 4 bar losers (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606&p=525968&hilit=bakermel1#p525968) on the 30 kWh batteries when there had been none yet on the '15 "lizard" battery: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=24532. The worst I recall so far on '15 lizard batteries in very hot climates are 3 bar losers. We first learned of when the "lizard" batteries were being equipped in http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168&p=374490.

Nissan in the past had referred to a "hot" (more heat resistant) battery and did post about testing at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=320754#p320754, which presumably became the above "lizard" battery.

Then, Nissan an update for 30 kWh cars: https://insideevs.com/nissan-issues-software-fix-for-2016-17-leaf-battery-reporting-issues/. There are a few threads on this.

I haven't been following closely, so I can't say w/accuracy what the conclusions are so far, post-update. Prior to the update, a bunch of 30 kWh folks got their battery replaced, probably unnecessarily.

cwerdna said:

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

Yanni said:

The "big difference" I know about is that 2015 has the 24kWh battery and the SV and SL in 2016 have the larger 30kWh battery.
I prefer the larger battery. I've read that there was a concern about the quality of the 30kWh battery when the 16's first came out...is that real?

Click to expand...

The model year '15 "lizard" battery is the best one we know of, so far.

The 30 kWh battery started having people drop capacity bars pretty quickly in hot climates and even some early on in not hot climates. We were past 17 4 bar losers (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606&p=525968&hilit=bakermel1#p525968) on the 30 kWh batteries when there had been none yet on the '15 "lizard" battery: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=24532. The worst I recall so far on '15 lizard batteries in very hot climates are 3 bar losers. We first learned of when the "lizard" batteries were being equipped in http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168&p=374490.

Nissan in the past had referred to a "hot" (more heat resistant) battery and did post about testing at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=320754#p320754, which presumably became the above "lizard" battery.

Then, Nissan an update for 30 kWh cars: https://insideevs.com/nissan-issues-software-fix-for-2016-17-leaf-battery-reporting-issues/. There are a few threads on this.

I haven't been following closely, so I can't say w/accuracy what the conclusions are so far, post-update. Prior to the update, a bunch of 30 kWh folks got their battery replaced, probably unnecessarily.

Click to expand...

Hi-
Right now I commute 20 miles round-trip--and that is all all city streets. HOWEVER, next year I will have a 42 mile round trip commute, with about 1/3 being city streets and 2/3 of highway driving. Don't always have charging options at the worksite as I won't go to the same place every day, but all the sites I'll be going to next year are about 42 mile round trip from my house.

we have solar at home and we designed it to over-generate so charging at home is a no-cost event for us --in case that makes a difference in your eval.
Thanks!

A good 2015 Leaf with 12 solid bars will easily manage that 42 mile commute, provided it isn't at 75MPH in an S with the heat blasting. The issue with the 30kwh packs is that we have gone from seeing them wilting like lettuce in the heat, followed by a software update that Nissan claims will work (and with some evidence that it does and some that it doesn't) to eliminate the extra capacity loss. If you are a gambler, then a 30kwh Leaf that has never lost a capacity bar (as opposed to having lost one or more bars that 'came back' after the update) may work out for you. Just keep in mind that the "Lizard" pack is a well known quantity now, and the jury is still out on the 30KWH packs. I would definitely look at the two packs as having about the same "safe capacity" at this point in time...

The one "good point" is that unless Nissan mucked w/the capacity bar thresholds (http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Capacity_Behavior was from the '11 service manual but removed from later ones, so who knows?), a 4 bar loser 30 kWh should be not much worse than an 1 bar loser 24 kWh battery. And, the 30 kWh batteries have an 8 year/100K capacity warranty (it's by bars though, not by any %) vs. 5 years/60K on 24 kWh packs.

But yeah, even a 24 kWh battery can make that 42 roundtrip no prob.

I seem to recall reading here recently that they did change the bars for the 30kwh pack to require much more capacity loss before showing 4 gone, but I'm not 100% sure of that. Someone will confirm or refute it, I'm sure. Then there is the looming issue of the 80% "refurbished" packs being used as future replacements...

There is a concern with a car sitting on the dealer lot for a prolonged period of time, if they keep it fully charged. That can degrade battery life. Someone with more skill and experience than I have would be able to assess this based on LeafSpy data. But if two cars are otherwise the same, go for the one that has NOT been sitting around for months.

With a 40 mile commute you should be able to get years of use from either a 24kWh or 30kWh battery.

For $11 from Amazon I purchased the Veepeak Mini Bluetooth OBD2 scanner for use with an old android phone. You don't need any cables unless you want to semi-permeantly mount it.

Ron

You do not mention if there is a difference in price, mileage, and which one you saw.... You cannot go wrong with a 2 year early return lease.

However, you should not buy any Leaf without spending the $15 on Leaf spy phone app and a $15 wifi plug into the obdII plug.

You need to decide depending on the price, the Leafspy, and the trim levels of the cars. Otherwise you cannot choose wisely...

You cannot go wrong with a 2 year early return lease.

Click to expand...

Unless the car was returned because of rapidly dropping range or because it was a "Lemon." Some people do return them simply because they need more range than the car can provide even ideally, or because of unnecessary range anxiety.