coach81
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:04 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana

Justify the 2018/2019 Leaf in South Louisiana

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:03 am

Hey.. it's me again... :)

Saw the new design of the 2018 with the increased range and power... so got the itch again....

As usual whenever I make a big financial decision I try to weigh the pros and cons.. I would really appreciate any current owners input to help me either justify the purchase or forget about owning a Leaf :|

Pros-
1. I want one... I've been intrigued since 2010... but it's a want.. not anywhere near a need. I just bought and PAID OFF a 2016 Nissan Altima that is in *knock on wood* perfect condition. I pay about $90 per month in gas, and I really like the car.
2. The technology, and no gas, and the "fun factor" of driving an all electric vehicle.
3. With a potential trade in value of my paid off vehicle, tax incentives and rebates, and a good down payment the car would not cost me that much more (especially when you put in monthly gas savings) literally less than $100 per month.
4. It fits my driving habits- I would charge from home, and my daily driving is well within the 150 mile range.

Any more pros you guys can add????

Cons-

1. I have a perfectly good paid off car that runs great, don't need a new one.
2. I live in South Louisiana- Oil is KING here, therefore there are NO quick charge options for me.. so I would be very limited to where I could go. Even if I just wanted to go to New Orleans, I would have to account for 4 or 5 extra hours of charge time to get back home (only level 2 chargers available).
3. Where I live, my wife and I are very concerned about service on the vehicle if God forbid something were to go wrong with it. My local Dealer won't even sell me a Leaf, I will have to go to New Orleans to buy it. But if something goes wrong, can the mechanics here in Louisiana be able to fix an electric car? How long would that take, how long would I be without a vehicle?
4. I would have to install a level 2 charger at my home, I was quoted a price over the phone of at least $1500 to $2500 for installation as it would require a new circuit box as my house is old.
5. I live in South Louisiana- it's HOT all the time.. isn't this bad for the batteries (rapid gate and whatnot) would this cause my battery to degrade at a faster rate)?
6. My wife said she would be nervous about driving or riding in the vehicle with me.. she would be afraid of us getting stranded if something goes wrong.. come to think of it... maybe this one is a pro :P ?
7. I do not have a closed in garage, my car would have to charge and be parked out in the open in my driveway or front yard.
8. How long would this car (battery) last? Would it last as long as my current ICE altima will?

I welcome any and all comments... I'm secretly hoping that you guys can help me justify the car... right now I'm having a difficult time.

Thanks in advance,
Coach

powersurge
Posts: 1056
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Justify the 2018/2019 Leaf in South Louisiana

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:52 am

Forget about electric..... You yourself have given the cons, which are much bigger than the Pros....

WetEV
Posts: 2321
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Justify the 2018/2019 Leaf in South Louisiana

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:08 am

coach81 wrote: habits- I would charge from home, and my daily driving is well within the 150 mile range.


As the battery gets older, the capacity decreases. Is your daily driving well with the range with a battery at warranty replacement loss, about 65%.

As you say, you want to. It will likely cost more, at worse case replacing a battery just past 100k miles/8 years. Best case for you would be a warranty replacement in 99k miles/7 years 11 months, and the replacement battery is at least as good. I don't know what a battery replacement will cost. Can you afford the risk?


coach81 wrote:6. My wife said she would be nervous about driving or riding in the vehicle with me.. she would be afraid of us getting stranded if something goes wrong.. come to think of it... maybe this one is a pro :P ?


It is a pro. About 15 seconds after your wife gets behind the wheel, it will be her car. I suggest you negotiate a sharing arrangement in advance.

coach81 wrote:7. I do not have a closed in garage, my car would have to charge and be parked out in the open in my driveway or front yard.


Fine, if shaded most of the day.

coach81 wrote:8. How long would this car (battery) last? Would it last as long as my current ICE altima will?


The car probably will last at least as long as the ICE will. The battery likely will not. However, we really don't know. The test of time takes time.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Justify the 2018/2019 Leaf in South Louisiana

Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:35 pm

coach81 wrote:Hey.. it's me again... :)

Saw the new design of the 2018 with the increased range and power... so got the itch again....

As usual whenever I make a big financial decision I try to weigh the pros and cons.. I would really appreciate any current owners input to help me either justify the purchase or forget about owning a Leaf :|

Pros-
1. I want one... I've been intrigued since 2010... but it's a want.. not anywhere near a need. I just bought and PAID OFF a 2016 Nissan Altima that is in *knock on wood* perfect condition. I pay about $90 per month in gas, and I really like the car.
2. The technology, and no gas, and the "fun factor" of driving an all electric vehicle.
3. With a potential trade in value of my paid off vehicle, tax incentives and rebates, and a good down payment the car would not cost me that much more (especially when you put in monthly gas savings) literally less than $100 per month.
4. It fits my driving habits- I would charge from home, and my daily driving is well within the 150 mile range.

Any more pros you guys can add????

Cons-

1. I have a perfectly good paid off car that runs great, don't need a new one.
2. I live in South Louisiana- Oil is KING here, therefore there are NO quick charge options for me.. so I would be very limited to where I could go. Even if I just wanted to go to New Orleans, I would have to account for 4 or 5 extra hours of charge time to get back home (only level 2 chargers available).
3. Where I live, my wife and I are very concerned about service on the vehicle if God forbid something were to go wrong with it. My local Dealer won't even sell me a Leaf, I will have to go to New Orleans to buy it. But if something goes wrong, can the mechanics here in Louisiana be able to fix an electric car? How long would that take, how long would I be without a vehicle?
4. I would have to install a level 2 charger at my home, I was quoted a price over the phone of at least $1500 to $2500 for installation as it would require a new circuit box as my house is old.
5. I live in South Louisiana- it's HOT all the time.. isn't this bad for the batteries (rapid gate and whatnot) would this cause my battery to degrade at a faster rate)?
6. My wife said she would be nervous about driving or riding in the vehicle with me.. she would be afraid of us getting stranded if something goes wrong.. come to think of it... maybe this one is a pro :P ?
7. I do not have a closed in garage, my car would have to charge and be parked out in the open in my driveway or front yard.
8. How long would this car (battery) last? Would it last as long as my current ICE altima will?

I welcome any and all comments... I'm secretly hoping that you guys can help me justify the car... right now I'm having a difficult time.

Thanks in advance,
Coach


Considering how little you spend on gas, it seems you either drive only a few miles daily, or many miles a few times a week. Which is it?

If you have regular commute miles, then a used leaf (2013 or 2014) would make it very easy to justify based on:
- gas savings
- maintenance savings
- smog check savings (does louisiana even require smog checks?)
- depreciation savings of your altima (since it's paid off, you're losing equity every year even without miles driven on it). A used leaf being cheaper will have less equity to depreciate (even if the rate is higher).

But if your miles are sporadic (semi-regularly being more than 60 miles per day), then it's MUCH harder to justify.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9379
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Justify the 2018/2019 Leaf in South Louisiana

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:25 pm

The heat - especially hot nights that wouldn't let the pack cool - is your biggest problem. On the one hand you don't need lots of range usually, so losing it to degradation wouldn't usually bother you. OTOH, those occasional long trips would be much worse, with both slow charging and less and less range. You might want to look at the Bolt, Volt, and Prius Prime (if 25 miles of EV range is enough for regular driving). IF you want a pure EV, then the Bolt, with active battery cooling and more range, is likely the car for you.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

joeriv
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: Fairfield County CT

Re: Justify the 2018/2019 Leaf in South Louisiana

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:02 pm

As much as I Iove my Leaf, if I had your "Cons" I would not buy one. Without having a dealer who supports the Leaf nearby, any issues you might have will be difficult to handle. The heat you have is so detrimental to a Leaf that, for me, it would be NG. In your situation leasing may be the better option if you can get a killer deal.

Before I sold my 2013 S, my degradation was about 4-5 amp/hrs after almost 4 years - I seriously doubt you would have the same experience.
2017 Leaf S with QC, JUN mfg date

coach81
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:04 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana

Re: Justify the 2018/2019 Leaf in South Louisiana

Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:59 pm

Oils- only a few miles daily.


LeftieBiker wrote:The heat - especially hot nights that wouldn't let the pack cool - is your biggest problem. On the one hand you don't need lots of range usually, so losing it to degradation wouldn't usually bother you. OTOH, those occasional long trips would be much worse, with both slow charging and less and less range. You might want to look at the Bolt, Volt, and Prius Prime (if 25 miles of EV range is enough for regular driving). IF you want a pure EV, then the Bolt, with active battery cooling and more range, is likely the car for you.


That is exactly what I am currently looking at.. a Prius Prime Advanced... thanks so much Leftie


joeriv wrote:As much as I Iove my Leaf, if I had your "Cons" I would not buy one. Without having a dealer who supports the Leaf nearby, any issues you might have will be difficult to handle. The heat you have is so detrimental to a Leaf that, for me, it would be NG. In your situation leasing may be the better option if you can get a killer deal.

Before I sold my 2013 S, my degradation was about 4-5 amp/hrs after almost 4 years - I seriously doubt you would have the same experience.


Sadly... I have to agree with you Joe and power... I simply cannot justify the purchase of the Leaf.. too many cons...


now the Prime..... :idea:

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9379
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Justify the 2018/2019 Leaf in South Louisiana

Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:06 pm

Just keep in mind that the Prime has no active battery cooling either, so you'll want to baby the car and charge it only when it's (the pack) relatively cool. It should still get almost 60MPG even when not charged.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

sbuhler
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:11 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 316690
Location: New Orleans, LA

Re: Justify the 2018/2019 Leaf in South Louisiana

Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:45 pm

I live right outside New Orleans, LA (20 miles) and purchased a 2018 Leaf. I previously owned a Volt and BMW i3 REx. My teenage son drives a Fiat 500e that I had shipped from Tacoma, WA. I was somewhat worried about the temperature but in reality we rarely get over 95 so I went for it. I truly enjoy the ride so much more than the Volt, i3, and even the Bolt. In the New Orleans area we only have 4 new ones for sale and I got very frustrated trying to deal locally. I actually purchased from a dealer in Austin, Texas a 2018 SV built on 8/2/18 and purchased 9/15/18 so it did not sit on the lot. INCLUDING them delivering it to my house and putting my trade on a trailer and bringing it back to Austin still saved me $2500 compared to purchasing locally. I am very satisfied as we still have one ICE vehicle if we have to travel far; if I only had enough money to buy the Model X for my wife!
2018 Leaf SV Build 8/2/18 Delivered 9/15/18
2015 Fiat 500e
2017 Jaguar F-Pace

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Justify the 2018/2019 Leaf in South Louisiana

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:35 pm

coach81 wrote:Oils- only a few miles daily.


LeftieBiker wrote:The heat - especially hot nights that wouldn't let the pack cool - is your biggest problem. On the one hand you don't need lots of range usually, so losing it to degradation wouldn't usually bother you. OTOH, those occasional long trips would be much worse, with both slow charging and less and less range. You might want to look at the Bolt, Volt, and Prius Prime (if 25 miles of EV range is enough for regular driving). IF you want a pure EV, then the Bolt, with active battery cooling and more range, is likely the car for you.


That is exactly what I am currently looking at.. a Prius Prime Advanced... thanks so much Leftie


joeriv wrote:As much as I Iove my Leaf, if I had your "Cons" I would not buy one. Without having a dealer who supports the Leaf nearby, any issues you might have will be difficult to handle. The heat you have is so detrimental to a Leaf that, for me, it would be NG. In your situation leasing may be the better option if you can get a killer deal.

Before I sold my 2013 S, my degradation was about 4-5 amp/hrs after almost 4 years - I seriously doubt you would have the same experience.


Sadly... I have to agree with you Joe and power... I simply cannot justify the purchase of the Leaf.. too many cons...


now the Prime..... :idea:


At a few miles daily, you should be safe with a 2013/2014 leaf.

You'll get all the EV benefits without the depreciation hit of a new vehicle - nor that of any vehicle with a combustion engine (making the volt and prime poor choices because of the depreciation as gas engines go out of favor)! Depreciation needs to be factored when crunching the numbers of owning any vehicle. The fun to drive factor should just be icing on top.

If it's not too much more to add insurance for a second vehicle, I'd recommend you do the used 2013 leaf (keep the Altima just in case). See how comfortable you become with the leaf's range. If you find that you never need the altima after a few months, you can sell it then. It'll get your foot wet with EV's sooner and for less out of pocket costs and less worry.

Although Lousiana does get hot, I don't think your area sees the same high temperatures as Arizona, southern California, or inland Texas right? If correct, then your degradation won't be as bad (assuming you practice good charging habits).

Yes, I'm trying to convince you that a full EV is doable, but I get that it's hard to be certain about things like degradation without direct experience. Good luck with whichever route you choose!
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

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