Justify the 2018/2019 Leaf in South Louisiana

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coach81

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Messages
147
Location
Louisiana
Hey.. it's me again... :)

Saw the new design of the 2018 with the increased range and power... so got the itch again....

As usual whenever I make a big financial decision I try to weigh the pros and cons.. I would really appreciate any current owners input to help me either justify the purchase or forget about owning a Leaf :|

Pros-
1. I want one... I've been intrigued since 2010... but it's a want.. not anywhere near a need. I just bought and PAID OFF a 2016 Nissan Altima that is in *knock on wood* perfect condition. I pay about $90 per month in gas, and I really like the car.
2. The technology, and no gas, and the "fun factor" of driving an all electric vehicle.
3. With a potential trade in value of my paid off vehicle, tax incentives and rebates, and a good down payment the car would not cost me that much more (especially when you put in monthly gas savings) literally less than $100 per month.
4. It fits my driving habits- I would charge from home, and my daily driving is well within the 150 mile range.

Any more pros you guys can add????

Cons-

1. I have a perfectly good paid off car that runs great, don't need a new one.
2. I live in South Louisiana- Oil is KING here, therefore there are NO quick charge options for me.. so I would be very limited to where I could go. Even if I just wanted to go to New Orleans, I would have to account for 4 or 5 extra hours of charge time to get back home (only level 2 chargers available).
3. Where I live, my wife and I are very concerned about service on the vehicle if God forbid something were to go wrong with it. My local Dealer won't even sell me a Leaf, I will have to go to New Orleans to buy it. But if something goes wrong, can the mechanics here in Louisiana be able to fix an electric car? How long would that take, how long would I be without a vehicle?
4. I would have to install a level 2 charger at my home, I was quoted a price over the phone of at least $1500 to $2500 for installation as it would require a new circuit box as my house is old.
5. I live in South Louisiana- it's HOT all the time.. isn't this bad for the batteries (rapid gate and whatnot) would this cause my battery to degrade at a faster rate)?
6. My wife said she would be nervous about driving or riding in the vehicle with me.. she would be afraid of us getting stranded if something goes wrong.. come to think of it... maybe this one is a pro :p ?
7. I do not have a closed in garage, my car would have to charge and be parked out in the open in my driveway or front yard.
8. How long would this car (battery) last? Would it last as long as my current ICE altima will?

I welcome any and all comments... I'm secretly hoping that you guys can help me justify the car... right now I'm having a difficult time.

Thanks in advance,
Coach
 
coach81 said:
habits- I would charge from home, and my daily driving is well within the 150 mile range.

As the battery gets older, the capacity decreases. Is your daily driving well with the range with a battery at warranty replacement loss, about 65%.

As you say, you want to. It will likely cost more, at worse case replacing a battery just past 100k miles/8 years. Best case for you would be a warranty replacement in 99k miles/7 years 11 months, and the replacement battery is at least as good. I don't know what a battery replacement will cost. Can you afford the risk?


coach81 said:
6. My wife said she would be nervous about driving or riding in the vehicle with me.. she would be afraid of us getting stranded if something goes wrong.. come to think of it... maybe this one is a pro :p ?

It is a pro. About 15 seconds after your wife gets behind the wheel, it will be her car. I suggest you negotiate a sharing arrangement in advance.

coach81 said:
7. I do not have a closed in garage, my car would have to charge and be parked out in the open in my driveway or front yard.

Fine, if shaded most of the day.

coach81 said:
8. How long would this car (battery) last? Would it last as long as my current ICE altima will?

The car probably will last at least as long as the ICE will. The battery likely will not. However, we really don't know. The test of time takes time.
 
coach81 said:
Hey.. it's me again... :)

Saw the new design of the 2018 with the increased range and power... so got the itch again....

As usual whenever I make a big financial decision I try to weigh the pros and cons.. I would really appreciate any current owners input to help me either justify the purchase or forget about owning a Leaf :|

Pros-
1. I want one... I've been intrigued since 2010... but it's a want.. not anywhere near a need. I just bought and PAID OFF a 2016 Nissan Altima that is in *knock on wood* perfect condition. I pay about $90 per month in gas, and I really like the car.
2. The technology, and no gas, and the "fun factor" of driving an all electric vehicle.
3. With a potential trade in value of my paid off vehicle, tax incentives and rebates, and a good down payment the car would not cost me that much more (especially when you put in monthly gas savings) literally less than $100 per month.
4. It fits my driving habits- I would charge from home, and my daily driving is well within the 150 mile range.

Any more pros you guys can add????

Cons-

1. I have a perfectly good paid off car that runs great, don't need a new one.
2. I live in South Louisiana- Oil is KING here, therefore there are NO quick charge options for me.. so I would be very limited to where I could go. Even if I just wanted to go to New Orleans, I would have to account for 4 or 5 extra hours of charge time to get back home (only level 2 chargers available).
3. Where I live, my wife and I are very concerned about service on the vehicle if God forbid something were to go wrong with it. My local Dealer won't even sell me a Leaf, I will have to go to New Orleans to buy it. But if something goes wrong, can the mechanics here in Louisiana be able to fix an electric car? How long would that take, how long would I be without a vehicle?
4. I would have to install a level 2 charger at my home, I was quoted a price over the phone of at least $1500 to $2500 for installation as it would require a new circuit box as my house is old.
5. I live in South Louisiana- it's HOT all the time.. isn't this bad for the batteries (rapid gate and whatnot) would this cause my battery to degrade at a faster rate)?
6. My wife said she would be nervous about driving or riding in the vehicle with me.. she would be afraid of us getting stranded if something goes wrong.. come to think of it... maybe this one is a pro :p ?
7. I do not have a closed in garage, my car would have to charge and be parked out in the open in my driveway or front yard.
8. How long would this car (battery) last? Would it last as long as my current ICE altima will?

I welcome any and all comments... I'm secretly hoping that you guys can help me justify the car... right now I'm having a difficult time.

Thanks in advance,
Coach

Considering how little you spend on gas, it seems you either drive only a few miles daily, or many miles a few times a week. Which is it?

If you have regular commute miles, then a used leaf (2013 or 2014) would make it very easy to justify based on:
- gas savings
- maintenance savings
- smog check savings (does louisiana even require smog checks?)
- depreciation savings of your altima (since it's paid off, you're losing equity every year even without miles driven on it). A used leaf being cheaper will have less equity to depreciate (even if the rate is higher).

But if your miles are sporadic (semi-regularly being more than 60 miles per day), then it's MUCH harder to justify.
 
The heat - especially hot nights that wouldn't let the pack cool - is your biggest problem. On the one hand you don't need lots of range usually, so losing it to degradation wouldn't usually bother you. OTOH, those occasional long trips would be much worse, with both slow charging and less and less range. You might want to look at the Bolt, Volt, and Prius Prime (if 25 miles of EV range is enough for regular driving). IF you want a pure EV, then the Bolt, with active battery cooling and more range, is likely the car for you.
 
As much as I Iove my Leaf, if I had your "Cons" I would not buy one. Without having a dealer who supports the Leaf nearby, any issues you might have will be difficult to handle. The heat you have is so detrimental to a Leaf that, for me, it would be NG. In your situation leasing may be the better option if you can get a killer deal.

Before I sold my 2013 S, my degradation was about 4-5 amp/hrs after almost 4 years - I seriously doubt you would have the same experience.
 
Oils- only a few miles daily.


LeftieBiker said:
The heat - especially hot nights that wouldn't let the pack cool - is your biggest problem. On the one hand you don't need lots of range usually, so losing it to degradation wouldn't usually bother you. OTOH, those occasional long trips would be much worse, with both slow charging and less and less range. You might want to look at the Bolt, Volt, and Prius Prime (if 25 miles of EV range is enough for regular driving). IF you want a pure EV, then the Bolt, with active battery cooling and more range, is likely the car for you.

That is exactly what I am currently looking at.. a Prius Prime Advanced... thanks so much Leftie


joeriv said:
As much as I Iove my Leaf, if I had your "Cons" I would not buy one. Without having a dealer who supports the Leaf nearby, any issues you might have will be difficult to handle. The heat you have is so detrimental to a Leaf that, for me, it would be NG. In your situation leasing may be the better option if you can get a killer deal.

Before I sold my 2013 S, my degradation was about 4-5 amp/hrs after almost 4 years - I seriously doubt you would have the same experience.

Sadly... I have to agree with you Joe and power... I simply cannot justify the purchase of the Leaf.. too many cons...


now the Prime..... :idea:
 
Just keep in mind that the Prime has no active battery cooling either, so you'll want to baby the car and charge it only when it's (the pack) relatively cool. It should still get almost 60MPG even when not charged.
 
I live right outside New Orleans, LA (20 miles) and purchased a 2018 Leaf. I previously owned a Volt and BMW i3 REx. My teenage son drives a Fiat 500e that I had shipped from Tacoma, WA. I was somewhat worried about the temperature but in reality we rarely get over 95 so I went for it. I truly enjoy the ride so much more than the Volt, i3, and even the Bolt. In the New Orleans area we only have 4 new ones for sale and I got very frustrated trying to deal locally. I actually purchased from a dealer in Austin, Texas a 2018 SV built on 8/2/18 and purchased 9/15/18 so it did not sit on the lot. INCLUDING them delivering it to my house and putting my trade on a trailer and bringing it back to Austin still saved me $2500 compared to purchasing locally. I am very satisfied as we still have one ICE vehicle if we have to travel far; if I only had enough money to buy the Model X for my wife!
 
coach81 said:
Oils- only a few miles daily.


LeftieBiker said:
The heat - especially hot nights that wouldn't let the pack cool - is your biggest problem. On the one hand you don't need lots of range usually, so losing it to degradation wouldn't usually bother you. OTOH, those occasional long trips would be much worse, with both slow charging and less and less range. You might want to look at the Bolt, Volt, and Prius Prime (if 25 miles of EV range is enough for regular driving). IF you want a pure EV, then the Bolt, with active battery cooling and more range, is likely the car for you.

That is exactly what I am currently looking at.. a Prius Prime Advanced... thanks so much Leftie


joeriv said:
As much as I Iove my Leaf, if I had your "Cons" I would not buy one. Without having a dealer who supports the Leaf nearby, any issues you might have will be difficult to handle. The heat you have is so detrimental to a Leaf that, for me, it would be NG. In your situation leasing may be the better option if you can get a killer deal.

Before I sold my 2013 S, my degradation was about 4-5 amp/hrs after almost 4 years - I seriously doubt you would have the same experience.

Sadly... I have to agree with you Joe and power... I simply cannot justify the purchase of the Leaf.. too many cons...


now the Prime..... :idea:

At a few miles daily, you should be safe with a 2013/2014 leaf.

You'll get all the EV benefits without the depreciation hit of a new vehicle - nor that of any vehicle with a combustion engine (making the volt and prime poor choices because of the depreciation as gas engines go out of favor)! Depreciation needs to be factored when crunching the numbers of owning any vehicle. The fun to drive factor should just be icing on top.

If it's not too much more to add insurance for a second vehicle, I'd recommend you do the used 2013 leaf (keep the Altima just in case). See how comfortable you become with the leaf's range. If you find that you never need the altima after a few months, you can sell it then. It'll get your foot wet with EV's sooner and for less out of pocket costs and less worry.

Although Lousiana does get hot, I don't think your area sees the same high temperatures as Arizona, southern California, or inland Texas right? If correct, then your degradation won't be as bad (assuming you practice good charging habits).

Yes, I'm trying to convince you that a full EV is doable, but I get that it's hard to be certain about things like degradation without direct experience. Good luck with whichever route you choose!
 
You'll get all the EV benefits without the depreciation hit of a new vehicle - nor that of any vehicle with a combustion engine (making the volt and prime poor choices because of the depreciation as gas engines go out of favor)! Depreciation needs to be factored when crunching the numbers of owning any vehicle.

I don't think it's accurate to predict depreciation for PHEVs because they aren't EVs. I think it's more likely that they will depreciate less, for two reasons:

* No substantial loss of driving range over years.

* As more drivers with long commutes and some range anxiety consider alternatives, the PHEV will continue to be their safer choice.
 
Thanks so much for the replies. I am really looking into the Prime advanced and again looking at pros and cons. I appreciate the comments.
 
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