Purchase Help! 2013 Leaf SV

Hello everyone! I have put a deposit on a 2013 SV Nissal Leaf built in 6/2013. I've done some research but was hoping you all could help answer some of my final questions.

I'm looking for a well depreciated but still some life in it type car. I'm getting a check for $5k for my old car (Corolla - totaled recently - everyone's ok) and I'm not looking to spend more than $8-$10k on the replacement but cheaper is better.

A little about my situation: I live in Montana where we have long cold winters. I live at 5500 feet elevation and commute 15 miles each way 4 days/week to 4800 feet. This car would be my primary commuter. This car I'm interested is located 215mi from here in Jackson, WY at a dealership. The carfax states the car spent the first two years in Georgia (hot!) and the last two years in Yellowstone (cold!). The car appears to come with both chargers (fast and slow) and a Siemens unit that I think is what you'd install in your garage to fast charge it. Let me know if I'm off base on those chargers please!

My questions:

1. Range: I'll post some numbers from a local mechanic down there (I wasn't able to go look at the car so I had a trusted mechanic look at it and plug his computer into it). Its currently at 12 capacity bars I think its close to going to 11 bars. Can I expect that for the next 4-5 years (more would be great!) that I'll still be able to get two and from work even in cold weather? I plan on plugging every night and having it heat up in the garage before leaving on a timer.

Numbers given by the mechanic:
Total Degradation coefficient 0.85
Cell reading across all 96 cells is 3935 avg.
53% charge currently
Battery temp is 98 degrees and it had been on for 20-30 min
Most of charge cycles on 110 rather than fast charge
Battery has 377 volts
HV battery cap loss dissipation is 87%

2. Price. I offered $9k out the door. They were asking $10k. Is this a fair price? One thing I can say is inventory is Low in my neck of the woods. I'd have to drive to salt lake (410mi) or Denver (610mi) to find more inventory. This is the closest one listed.

3. The local Nissan dealership wasn't that helpful with my questions. They said they don't repair them and don't sell them. I live in a town of about 50k people. This day in age will I be able to find someone local to do repairs/service the car if needed?

4. Any thing to look out for when I go down to test drive it other than the usual things? I'm in my late 30s so I've purchased several cars up to this point in my life.

My plan is to drive my pickup truck and flatbed down to pick it up and haul it back this weekend if I opt to pull the trigger. Thank you for any help you can offer. I'm going to attempt to post some pictures from the mechanic that went and checked the car out. Thank you so much for any help you can offer!

Adam


https://drive.google.com/open?id=15NJtBEap2e0nxdgPl3mHTpc3xatud7RV
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JpLoRHN73YGVsRZhMxevBQGUFDVfZwwd
https://drive.google.com/open?id=15k0EAeyDyEI5mX5XIOU64DRMWBhASDmB
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zuw6E_Ci1WGM7zYyVyMujyhNSzVbQhH_
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TrtDO7CpejEoGfufpprCi2Un7paj7lYf

Listing:
https://www.tetonmotorssubaru.com/used/Nissan/2013-Nissan-Leaf-jackson-wy-4f9ffba90a0e0a6b109d7b75ede66cd8.htm

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662

That will help with shopping. The metrics for the battery you give are unusual, but if as I suspect they are SOH of 85% and Hx of 87% then yes, it's essentially an 11 bar car. It should be good for 30 miles of hard commuting for 4-5 years in your climate, although you may need to take conservation steps in years to come, or charge at work, even with 120 volts.

As for the charging options: all Leafs can charge at Level 1 (L-1) and L-2 at 208-240 volts, through the same small port. Some Leafs have a second, larger DC Fast Charge port (QC), but those require a large, expensive high power charging unit that is not found in homes. IOW if the car has a fast charge port, you still need to find a commercial fast charging station. Given your commute, L-2 or even 120 volt L-1 should be enough.

The price is fine if the car has the Premium Package, Charge Package, or both. If it's an un-optioned SV then it's a bit high, but as you wrote, supply is limited.

I like my Leaf, and I think they are great cars. If you don't have a Nissan dealer with a Leaf authorized tech within 50 miles of your home, I would strongly recommend against buying one. As a commuter car, a Nissan Versa would suit you much better, in your climate, with your dealer.

If you want to take a risk with a Leaf, find one that has spent it's whole life in a better climate, like Oregon or Washington.

A little about my situation: I live in Montana where we have long cold winters. I live at 5500 feet elevation and commute 15 miles each way 4 days/week to 4800 feet. This car would be my primary commuter.

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IF those hills are as steep as they sound, a Versa won't be fun for climbing them. It would be better to have a Leaf certified mechanic nearby, but if you can flatbed the car, find one within a hundred miles.

Thanks for the info! Between your responses and some more research I'm guessing that the Siemens Device in the trunk (hopefully those google drive links allow you to see the photos) is for level 2 charging at home (I'll need an electrician to install a 240v outlet in my garage that I can plug that device into). So the Siemens device and a 120v plug both use the right login under the hood door. But the left plug is a fast charging port that would allow me to charge at EV stations around town? And that fast charge port is an upgrade even from the SV and thus worth some money? So the $9k is reasonable. I did finally find a dealership that can work on it but its 200 mi away. Luckly we have multiple vehicles and if I really had issues I could trailer it down there. When you live in Montana you're used to things being far away. And hopefully I don't end up needing to do that very often.

Any thing I'm looking for on the test drive with this vehicle other than the usual things with ICE cars?

Thank you!

But the left plug is a fast charging port that would allow me to charge at EV stations around town? And that fast charge port is an upgrade even from the SV and thus worth some money?

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The QC port is worth more to you only if you have any "Chademo" type DC Fast charge stations near you. There are two DCFC standards in use in the US: Chademo (it's an acronym and usually has odd capitalizations) which is what the Leaf uses, and the 'SAE Combo' that uses a modified J-1772 - L2 setup in the single port, with two extra sockets used by the fast charger only. If there are no Chademo stations near you, then the QC port is of use only when you resell the car.

Test the heater when you drive the car. If it's weak or slow to heat (more than 2 minutes), then the heatpump is working but the resistance heater is not working, and that's a real problem. It's normal for the heated steering wheel to get very hot and then shut off; experienced Leaf drivers cycle the wheel heater manually.

@DocStizzle Looks like you live near Jackson, Wyoming. If so, then the only CHADEMO DCQC stations near you are in Idaho Falls. So, unless you are aware of pending DCQC installations nearer to Jackson, you might want to save a few $ and get an SV without the charging package. Having said that, you never know what the future holds and you might appreciate the DCQC option in a couple of years.

Yes to what Alozzy wrote. It's best to have both the Charge and Premium packages (in years that allowed that), but if you have no QC station in your area it's better to have Premium with no Charge package. SVs with neither still have the heatpump and Nav and Cruise, but you can drive a harder bargain for one with no option packages.

A little about my situation: I live in Montana where we have long cold winters. I live at 5500 feet elevation and commute 15 miles each way 4 days/week to 4800 feet. This car would be my primary commuter.

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My commute has a similar net elevation difference, and about the same distance. As long as there isn’t some high mountain pass in between, you should be fine. That said, if you can charge at each end (even at L1) that would give a bit more peace of mind in winter, particularly for the drive home.

The local Nissan dealership wasn't that helpful with my questions. They said they don't repair them and don't sell them. I live in a town of about 50k people. This day in age will I be able to find someone local to do repairs/service the car if needed?

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The good news is that there’s very little to service on the Leaf, and most of it can be done by any competent mechanic, or even yourself if you know how. Fluid changes, brakes, suspension, tire rotations, etc. are no different than any other Nissan.

The only parts that your typical mechanic won’t be able to work on are the high voltage parts, i.e. the traction battery, propulsion motor, etc. But those don’t really need any servicing. Nissan does require a yearly battery check, but since all but the 8 year/100k battery defects warranty would have expired by now, I wouldn’t worry about it. If you do need to have those serviced, from southern MT the only Leaf-certified dealers are in Missoula and Idaho Falls.

RonDawg said:

The only parts that your typical mechanic won’t be able to work on are the high voltage parts, i.e. the traction battery, propulsion motor, etc. But those don’t really need any servicing. Nissan does require a yearly battery check, but since all but the 8 year/100k battery defects warranty would have expired by now, I wouldn’t worry about it. If you do need to have those serviced, from southern MT the only Leaf-certified dealers are in Missoula and Idaho Falls.

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Not necessarily - I'm looking at a 2015 this weekend (first sold on 1/2015) that still has a few years/miles left on the degradation warranty (1/2020 and/or 60K and the car only has 40K on it). It was 5yr/60K miles, so there are still cars with leftover warranties driving around (unless I am grossly misinformed about the warranties on these cars).

Ok, for the elephant in the room. The original poster has presented the WORST possible set of circumstances to get an EV, and everyone is telling him to "Go for it!"

If you are looking for:
The cheapest car with an obviously deteriorated battery (the reason for the low price),
Live in an area that is almost exclusively mountainous
With long, cold winters (needing a lot of heat, and I wont get into summer weather),
Far away from a car dealer, and
A 30 mile round trip

You are the least likely to be looking for an EV. Why do you need an EV anyway? If I lived in an area like you, I would be driving a big, beautiful 4 wheel drive SUV or Pickup that could take me anywhere, through any snow or winter, while being able to BLAST the heat to your heart's content!!!

tattoogunman said:

RonDawg said:

The only parts that your typical mechanic won’t be able to work on are the high voltage parts, i.e. the traction battery, propulsion motor, etc. But those don’t really need any servicing. Nissan does require a yearly battery check, but since all but the 8 year/100k battery defects warranty would have expired by now, I wouldn’t worry about it. If you do need to have those serviced, from southern MT the only Leaf-certified dealers are in Missoula and Idaho Falls.

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Not necessarily - I'm looking at a 2015 this weekend (first sold on 1/2015) that still has a few years/miles left on the degradation warranty (1/2020 and/or 60K and the car only has 40K on it). It was 5yr/60K miles, so there are still cars with leftover warranties driving around (unless I am grossly misinformed about the warranties on these cars).

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Per the CarFax that I got from the dealer's link provided by the OP, the car was originally sold 7/6/2013 at Regal Nissan, Roswell, GA: https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?partner=DLR_3&vin=1N4AZ0CP0DC412139 So all original warranties except the battery defects warranty have already expired.

Of interesting note is that although the car has been owned by this selling dealer in Jackson, WY since at least last August, in September it was shipped to Ron Sayer Nissan in Idaho Falls (the closest Leaf-certified dealer from the Jackson Hole area) for some sort of servicing.

I also wonder why the computer was reprogrammed in August 2015. Battery replacement?

RonDawg said:

tattoogunman said:

Not necessarily - I'm looking at a 2015 this weekend (first sold on 1/2015) that still has a few years/miles left on the degradation warranty (1/2020 and/or 60K and the car only has 40K on it). It was 5yr/60K miles, so there are still cars with leftover warranties driving around (unless I am grossly misinformed about the warranties on these cars).

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Per the CarFax that I got from the dealer's link provided by the OP, the car was originally sold 7/6/2013 at Regal Nissan, Roswell, GA: https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?partner=DLR_3&vin=1N4AZ0CP0DC412139 So all original warranties except the battery defects warranty have already expired.

Of interesting note is that although the car has been owned by this selling dealer in Jackson, WY since at least last August, in September it was shipped to Ron Sayer Nissan in Idaho Falls (the closest Leaf-certified dealer from the Jackson Hole area) for some sort of servicing.

I also wonder why the computer was reprogrammed in August 2015. Battery replacement?

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It may have been the 2G to 3G upgrade/reprogram. Someone gave me these links and you can lookup all recalls, etc. http://x.nissanhelp.com/forums/Knowledgebase/links/651/

tattoogunman said:

RonDawg said:

I also wonder why the computer was reprogrammed in August 2015. Battery replacement?

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It may have been the 2G to 3G upgrade/reprogram. Someone gave me these links and you can lookup all recalls, etc. http://x.nissanhelp.com/forums/Knowledgebase/links/651/

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Was Nissan already offering that upgrade in the summer of 2015? IIRC AT&T didn't shut down 2g service until the end of 2016, and I thought Nissan waited until basically the last minute. I didn't give back my Leaf until Christmastime 2015 and I had gotten no notices about this upgrade.

RonDawg said:

tattoogunman said:

RonDawg said:

I also wonder why the computer was reprogrammed in August 2015. Battery replacement?

Click to expand...

It may have been the 2G to 3G upgrade/reprogram. Someone gave me these links and you can lookup all recalls, etc. http://x.nissanhelp.com/forums/Knowledgebase/links/651/

Click to expand...

Was Nissan already offering that upgrade in the summer of 2015? IIRC AT&T didn't shut down 2g service until the end of 2016, and I thought Nissan waited until basically the last minute. I didn't give back my Leaf until Christmastime 2015 and I had gotten no notices about this upgrade.

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Honestly, I'm not sure - I've just heard people on here talking about it and it seemed to apply to the earlier models and not the newer ones. Maybe one of the long timers on here will chime in.

EDIT: Found this thread, but there are probably others. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=23053

Another one: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=21573

The "computer reprogram" may have been the seat weight sensor recall. The first recall on that just reprogrammed the car to accept a lower weight signal from the sensor, IIRC. Then when that cheap trick didn't always work, they replaced the sensors in another recall.

I haven't checked in on this thread in a while and it's clearly taken some tangents. I'll update you all for those of you that care. We drove down with a flatbed trailer and test drove the car. The heater worked great and overall no issues so we went for it! Loaded her up and hauled her back. The trip was uneventful - thank goodness. And so far so good. Its not too cold yet but the battery has been plenty for running to town, running some errands and back home. This car does have the charge package but not the premium. But for Montana we live in a progressive town and chargers are popping up all over the place. I bet we have a chademo before too long.

To Rondogs concerns - they are all legit. Some things you don't know about our situation. We have an AWD Toyota Sienna and a Gas guzzlin Toyota Tundra. And we only need two cars (3 young children). So this car is to dip my toes in the EV waters and drive it when the conditions allow. But thank you for presenting the other side!

I've already gotten the lvl 2 charger installed and set up the climate control timer to have the car warm when I get it in which is pretty cool. My next bit of research will be how to use my phone for remote climate control. If any of you could point me to the best threads for that I'd appreciate it. Also seat covers! With little kids and this light cloth interior I'm thinking some seat covers are going to be a good move.

Also if theres a thread on the pros and cons of the 80% vs 100% charging for battery life that would be great. Currently the battery range is great but I'd like it to remain so for years to come. I'll post some pics so far! Thank you for all your help! I really appreciate it.

I have to say the first time you plug your call into the wall is pretty special.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MZn1gskuiLGX5NjrXM6iq3LK9QwMeO6p
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LPkakyO9xy-XGWVBt9U2MeshwogcwDE6
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gSn0uUg2HQnX5-FWmfZFQW7epb7jtZXa
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SUi2ia4EAHW9xvo9gdV2B2vkAYHAeQ-j

You may want to live without remote access, as the telematics (cell modem) upgrade from 2G to 3G tends to cause problems with 12 volt battery drain. Unless you don't mind pulling a fuse regularly to hard reboot the new modem, I suggest you use the climate control timer alone.

As for 80% vs 100%, if you don't usually need a 100% charge, set the car's limit to 100% charge, but set the charge timer limit to 80%, with a start and end time that is the same time, every day. (Ex: 6:00pm to 6:00pm). That way the car will normally charge to 80%, but just pressing the timer override button when you plug it in will cause it to charge to 100% when needed.

This document (the first post in the topic) may be helpful to you:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=23297

RonDawg said:

tattoogunman said:

Not necessarily - I'm looking at a 2015 this weekend (first sold on 1/2015) that still has a few years/miles left on the degradation warranty (1/2020 and/or 60K and the car only has 40K on it). It was 5yr/60K miles, so there are still cars with leftover warranties driving around (unless I am grossly misinformed about the warranties on these cars).

Click to expand...

Per the CarFax that I got from the dealer's link provided by the OP, the car was originally sold 7/6/2013 at Regal Nissan, Roswell, GA: https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?partner=DLR_3&vin=1N4AZ0CP0DC412139 So all original warranties except the battery defects warranty have already expired.

Of interesting note is that although the car has been owned by this selling dealer in Jackson, WY since at least last August, in September it was shipped to Ron Sayer Nissan in Idaho Falls (the closest Leaf-certified dealer from the Jackson Hole area) for some sort of servicing.

I also wonder why the computer was reprogrammed in August 2015. Battery replacement?

Click to expand...

My 2012 Leaf sat at the dealer for a year. Suddenly it disappeared I do not know if it was a retail sale or it was sent to auction. All I know is that it disappeared from the lot.

LeftieBiker said:

[There are two DCFC standards in use in the US: Chademo (it's an acronym and usually has odd capitalizations) which is what the Leaf uses, and the 'SAE Combo' that uses a modified J-1772 - L2 setup in the single port, with two extra sockets used by the fast charger only. If there are no Chademo stations near you, then the QC port is of use only when you resell the car.

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There are at least three in the US. The third is Tesla Supercharger using their North American proprietary connector which is currently only compatible w/Tesla-branded vehicles.

https://www.chademo.com/faq/ under question 2 gives the etymology of CHAdeMO.