komondor5
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:20 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2019

Re: Should we purchase our leased 2016 Leaf S?

Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:20 pm

You need to look at a few things, if you buy the current car, the price is 12K if I understand. What is the car worth and what are the current rebates? The 2018 has a lot of improvements and you will get another 2 years of free charging. Leasing has a lower tax credit than buying but that is up to you.

In Colorado where I am the state kicks in 5K, Electric company is doing 3K and the federal is 7500 which comes down to 15,5K can bring the price of a new car down to 20K and if there are any offers from Nissan for a leftover 2018 drops the price even more.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9776
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Should we purchase our leased 2016 Leaf S?

Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:36 pm

Leasing has a lower tax credit than buying but that is up to you.


That depends on the purchaser's income.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

komondor5
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:20 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2019

Re: Should we purchase our leased 2016 Leaf S?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:50 am

When I looked at the federal tax credit is was about 57K for income. If you don't meet that hopefully you have a family member that can take advantage of the credit.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-dft/i1040tt--dft.pdf


Don't forget it is income on your taxes, not the tax owed. But the credit cannot be carried over either.

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Should we purchase our leased 2016 Leaf S?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:42 pm

komondor5 wrote:When I looked at the federal tax credit is was about 57K for income. If you don't meet that hopefully you have a family member that can take advantage of the credit.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-dft/i1040tt--dft.pdf


Don't forget it is income on your taxes, not the tax owed. But the credit cannot be carried over either.


I think you'd be surprised at how many people don't owe $7500 in taxes in a single year. EV buyers tend to be more affluent. I'm not, and many of the EV drivers I know aren't either. They also don't have affluent family members who will buy a car for them, even given the down payment.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

komondor5
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:20 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2019

Re: Should we purchase our leased 2016 Leaf S?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:21 pm

I guess maybe it is semantics but I don't think and income of under 60K is affluent.

See here
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2016/10 ... ow-do.aspx

You don't need to owe 7500.00 just that the amount of taxes that needs to be paid is 7500.00 for the year.

You could have already paid 8,000.00 in normal payroll deductions

Median income that I found is

https://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/colorado/


Real Median Household Income in Colorado
2016 1 Year Change 3 Year Change
US $57,617 +2.01% +7.02%
Colorado $65,685 +1.50% +8.37%

I live in Colorado so maybe I have a skewed view

here is the 2015 rates

3 Texas $55,653
24 Wisconsin $55,638
25 Nebraska $54,996
26 Iowa $54,736
27 Oregon $54,148
28 Kansas $53,906
29 South Dakota $53,017
30 Nevada $52,431
31 Maine $51,494
32 Arizona $51,492
33 Georgia (U.S. state) Georgia $51,244
34 Michigan $51,084
35 Ohio $51,075
36 Indiana $50,532
37 Missouri $50,238
38 Montana $49,509
39 Florida $49,426
40 Oklahoma $48,568
41 Idaho $48,275
42 North Carolina $47,830
43 Tennessee $47,275
44 South Carolina $47,238
45 Louisiana $45,727
46 New Mexico $45,382
47 Kentucky $45,215
48 Alabama $44,765
49 West Virginia $42,019
50 Arkansas $41,995
51 Mississippi $40,593

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9776
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Should we purchase our leased 2016 Leaf S?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:05 pm

You exclude retirees like me. You also are in a state with a fairly high median income. The median income in my county is $54k, with most adjacent counties about the same. My income is $34k, with much of it untaxed. But we really don't need to argue this, as there are many people here who leased precisely because they didn't qualify for the credit. Your lecture would be best delivered at another site, like a Tesla forum. ;-)
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
Posts: 2895
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Should we purchase our leased 2016 Leaf S?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:28 pm

Even if he lives in a "high income" state, keep in mind that for many states in this list, that figure is skewed by whatever area has the highest incomes, and certainly doesn't reflect how most of the state lives. For Colorado, metro Denver definitely skews it high, with their tech industry (there's an area of Denver even called "Denver Tech Center"), but I wouldn't expect the people of Pueblo or Grand Junction to be making similar money. I would expect the same for New York, since NYC will naturally have higher incomes (since cost of living is so high).

I also agree that $60k isn't all that affluent even for a single filer. I would say "strictly middle class" and in some areas of the country you couldn't afford to rent or buy with that income.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9776
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Should we purchase our leased 2016 Leaf S?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:28 pm

I also agree that $60k isn't all that affluent even for a single filer. I would say "strictly middle class" and in some areas of the country you couldn't afford to rent or buy with that income.


$60k looks like "Filthy Rich" when your income is $34k. ;-)
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
Posts: 2895
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Should we purchase our leased 2016 Leaf S?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:26 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
I also agree that $60k isn't all that affluent even for a single filer. I would say "strictly middle class" and in some areas of the country you couldn't afford to rent or buy with that income.


$60k looks like "Filthy Rich" when your income is $34k. ;-)


Much of your $34k is untaxed as you said.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9776
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Should we purchase our leased 2016 Leaf S?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:43 pm

$39k doesn't seem much like $60k either. Before we stop beating this dead thread, I'd like to make one more rebuttal: someone with a $60k income may be able to buy a Leaf for someone else, but even given the money up front they are very unlikely to do it, because of the financial risk. It isn't until you get to incomes where the risk would be trivial (well over $100k) that it becomes a non-silly idea. At that point the altruist in question IS "affluent," at least by the standards of us non-affluent.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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