Cold climate owners' experience wanted

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1ahayward

New member
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
1
I bought the 2018 Leaf last night. We're having typical December weather here in Minnesota: 20's (F) for highs and single digits for lows. It will get colder. My daily commute is 13 miles round trip. I've been advised by my local electric company that my detached, unheated garage's regular 120V outlet ought to handle the car's charging needs - at least until I see how I really use it. I have a friend in St. Paul who has used Trickle for the entire time she's owned her 2016 Leaf. I'd appreciate other folks' experience with this issue. I think I'm particularly worrying about the car sitting outside all day when it's really cold (windchill of -20's is common) in January and the battery isn't fully charged.
 
Don't worry too much. First, windchill affects mainly living creatures, second bodies of water, and, dead last, solid objects. Its effect on your Leaf will be only to get it down to ambient faster, not below. I had my 2013 SV parked in the open, on the usually-downwind side of the Hudson River, with temps as low as -15F. I also used 120 volt charging only. Keep the state of charge above 40% as much as possible, and always above 30% when exposed to frigid temps, because the battery warmer will start when the car's pack temperature falls into the single digits. The warmer will use a noticeable but not huge amount of charge until the pack warms back into the teens F, IIRC. With your short commute you can charge the car to between 70% and 100% (80% would be best) and not worry. Your car can deal with your Winters better than with really Hot Summers.

Just as an extra precaution, don't leave the car plugged in but not charging unless the battery warmer is on. (This is indicated by one of the blue charging lights lighting up, IIRC.) Earlier versions of the Leaf could suffer from a drained 12 volt accessory battery if left plugged in but not charging for many hours or days. This has probably been resolved with the 2018, but that isn't a known fact, yet. You shouldn't need to charge the car for more than half the day, anyway.
 
Just add that my ‘14 seemed to work better if it was driven daily during extreme cold. Speculate that a little exercise was keeping the battery temps in a more productive range. In my case have an attached unheated garage that rarely gets below freezing on sub-zero nights. When it was too cold for enough range to make my commute, would leave it parked outside, partially charged, and unplugged for several days while my CRV was being used and parked inside. If I expected to use the leaf, would bring inside a day ahead of time to rewarm the batteries slowly, then fully charge, preheat while plugged in and drive it for short errand trips. Then, it seemed to deliver a bit more range. If I only drove the leaf every other day in extreme cold, it seemed to deliver less usable range.

Don’t become too over concerned about extreme cold, it’s a better cold weather car than many will admit as long as properly equipped for the cold. Just make sure to maintain enough charge on the battery to run the battery warmer.
 
1ahayward said:
I bought the 2018 Leaf last night. We're having typical December weather here in Minnesota: 20's (F) for highs and single digits for lows. It will get colder. My daily commute is 13 miles round trip. I've been advised by my local electric company that my detached, unheated garage's regular 120V outlet ought to handle the car's charging needs - at least until I see how I really use it. I have a friend in St. Paul who has used Trickle for the entire time she's owned her 2016 Leaf. I'd appreciate other folks' experience with this issue. I think I'm particularly worrying about the car sitting outside all day when it's really cold (windchill of -20's is common) in January and the battery isn't fully charged.
As others have said, it will work but one of the nicest features of our Leaf(morning warmup) will cause your Leaf to lose many % SOC. With a nice 20a 240v EVSE you won't lose charge and even slightly gain charge.
I got by with 120v for 1 winter but have been much happier with 240v :)
Note in sub zero temps I would only expect 1/2 the summer range, my 75 mile Leaf could be as low as 35 miles in sub zero temps and snow, ~40s in 0 temps. The plus side is the Leaf has a pretty good heater and with preheat it's nice to get into a 70 degree car when it's zero out :)
 
In Colorado with nights as cold as -40°F I came to appreciate the level 2 EVSE I got. Not that you can't get by with a level 1 EVSE, but having that 240V "6kW" charging capability was sure nice.

As others have explained, if you turn on your cabin preheat with it plugged into a 120V outlet you will lose some range. That may not be as bad in a 40kWh Leaf as it was in my 24kWh Leaf, but it is nice to start out with 100% and a warm car.

Wind chill down around -20° to 20°F isn't a problem for a Leaf with a 15°F battery as a human with a 98°F body. It's like trying to factor wind chill for our bodies in 70° to 100°F weather. The cold will affect the performance, but that is not affected much by the wind.

Wind chill on a 180°F engine is a much bigger problem.
 
As others have explained, if you turn on your cabin preheat with it plugged into a 120V outlet you will lose some range. That may not be as bad in a 40kWh Leaf as it was in my 24kWh Leaf, but it is nice to start out with 100% and a warm car.

Keep in mind that he has a 13 mile round trip commute. ;-) No need to worry about losing 10% charge to some preheating.
 
Weather posts about 'wind chill' are calibrated for humans and are meant to express a loss of insulation. The scale does not apply to a LEAF battery.

OP: why do you not trust your local friend's experience ?

I second other posts: if you can install 240v at a reasonable cost it is totally worth it. I paid about $200 for a 14-50 outlet.
 
jjeff said:
As others have said, it will work but one of the nicest features of our Leaf(morning warmup) will cause your Leaf to lose many % SOC. With a nice 20a 240v EVSE you won't lose charge and even slightly gain charge.
I got by with 120v for 1 winter but have been much happier with 240v :)
Note in sub zero temps I would only expect 1/2 the summer range, my 75 mile Leaf could be as low as 35 miles in sub zero temps and snow, ~40s in 0 temps. The plus side is the Leaf has a pretty good heater and with preheat it's nice to get into a 70 degree car when it's zero out :)

I agree with jjeff. The time I have had issues is was when it was -20F and the car sat outside for 16 hours (at worked & can't plug in) and I lost some range due to the battery warmer kicking on and the battery getting colder. 30 miles is about the worst I have seen when it was really cold and the car had 0 temp bars :) However the Leaf "started" just fine while some other ice cars couldn't :)
 
SageBrush said:
Weather posts about 'wind chill' are calibrated for humans and are meant to express a loss of insulation. The scale does not apply to a LEAF battery.

OP: why do you not trust your local friend's experience ?

I second other posts: if you can install 240v at a reasonable cost it is totally worth it. I paid about $200 for a 14-50 outlet.

I spent less than that as a DIY project. It was inspected when my panel was replaced. I used to have the dreaded FPE panel. Current rules require a 200A or better panel so I have lots of room for more breakers.
 
Welcome, 1ahayward! I parked my 2017 Leaf S last January outside in the driveway for 5 days:
- low -15F, high -5F
- low -14F, high -6F
- low -13F, high 1F
- low -10F, high 1F
- low 0F, high 6F

All good temperatures for bomber kick with Special Green ;)

It only had a modest loss of SOC for the battery heater... maybe a few percent. I didn't have notes about the SOC when I'd parked it, but it hardly seemed any lower when I returned.
 
1ahayward said:
I bought the 2018 Leaf last night. We're having typical December weather here in Minnesota: 20's (F) for highs and single digits for lows. It will get colder. My daily commute is 13 miles round trip. I've been advised by my local electric company that my detached, unheated garage's regular 120V outlet ought to handle the car's charging needs - at least until I see how I really use it. I have a friend in St. Paul who has used Trickle for the entire time she's owned her 2016 Leaf. I'd appreciate other folks' experience with this issue. I think I'm particularly worrying about the car sitting outside all day when it's really cold (windchill of -20's is common) in January and the battery isn't fully charged.
IMHO, you don’t have a problem. Since your commute needs are low, 120v charging overnight refreshes your consumption easily. And if plugged in you’re set to pre-condition the car before your morning drive albeit with some range loss. Being outside all day will not be factor for the vehicle operation. Again with your short commute, you should be able to pre-condition your car before your trip home as well.

Some suggestions:
1- ensure your 120v outlet can handle the sustained charging current. If installed to today’s code, it should. Also check what other things are connected to that circuit and whether they would be in use simultaneously when charging.
2- Take others’ advice and charge to 80% for your typical charging, and 100% only when you need it and then only shortly before you need it. My LEAF has an 80% charging setting, I don’t know if your 2018 does but can be approximated manually.
3- Should your commute needs change to something longer than today, that would be a good time to consider a 240v charging station set up. You said the garage is detached so you are facing costs to run sufficient power to the garage itself, possibly a garage load center (circuit breaker box), heavier gauge wires, outlet of your choosing to match or hard-wire your selected charging station, the charging station itself, permits, and so on. For the experienced, this can be a DIY but for most of us it’s a licensed electrician. The advantage is much faster charging and in MN being able to pre-heat/cool from shore power without range loss.
4- Get and use LEAFSpyPro. Seriously. Just do it.

Good luck with your new LEAF! And please share your experiences with this forum to help us all.
 
Hi, Just to add my two pen'orth.
We've a 2015 leaf with 85k on it. Here in sunny Nova Scotia it gets pretty cold (down to -20 centigrade without windchill) and we've not had a problem. Only started garaging it last year, and only then if a snow storm was forecast. 240v does make life a lot easier tho'
Cheers
 
Here's a unique cold weather problem. I charged my 2018 Leaf overnight outdoors in the rain. The next morning I closed it up and there was a sudden cold snap -- temperatures down to single digits. Now my charging port hood is frozen shut, no apparent way to open it. Temps are supposed to go up into the 40s tomorrow so I assume it will open, but I'm lucky I have a gas car in the meantime.
 
Obitsman said:
Here's a unique cold weather problem. I charged my 2018 Leaf overnight outdoors in the rain. The next morning I closed it up and there was a sudden cold snap -- temperatures down to single digits. Now my charging port hood is frozen shut, no apparent way to open it. Temps are supposed to go up into the 40s tomorrow so I assume it will open, but I'm lucky I have a gas car in the meantime.

You should be able to open it by pouring a pitcher of warm (not really hot) water over it slowly.
 
I had it rain then drop down to 20F.
A little bit of convincing the charging door came open.
I figured if it didn't cooperate I would get a heat lamp and and a utility light stand, or hair dryer or heat gun, just not a propane torch.
 
Heat guns are generally too hot for cold painted surfaces. I've used pitchers of lukewarm water on iced windshields for many years without incident. You just have to remember that the colder the surface is, the cooler the water needs to be.
 
Obitsman said:
Here's a unique cold weather problem. I charged my 2018 Leaf overnight outdoors in the rain. The next morning I closed it up and there was a sudden cold snap -- temperatures down to single digits. Now my charging port hood is frozen shut, no apparent way to open it. Temps are supposed to go up into the 40s tomorrow so I assume it will open, but I'm lucky I have a gas car in the meantime.
I had been driving in freezing rain for a while on Monday 2019-01-21 and stopped at a public Level 2 charging station. The lid on the charging port would not open. It was making the usual noise, but the lid stayed closed. Eventually I figured out that the lid was indeed getting unlatched but the spring which normally pops the lid open was not strong enough to overcome the accumulated ice. I thought of prying it open with a screwdriver, but I didn't want to chance damaging the paint, and I had no screwdriver anyway. [Thinking of it now, I wonder if a credit card would have done it.] The solution I used was to thread a string (acually earbuds' wire) under one corner of the lid and use that to pull the front of the lid up while pressing the unlatch button on the key fob. That worked fine, with no heating necessary.

Edit 2019-01-31: An ice scraper's plastic blade works great for prying the lid open when the spring's not enough, as happened once again during the polar vortex cold snap now ending.
 
I have the same problem when it's cold when it comes to opening the charging door. I'm going to look for a rubber wedge to pry it open for those occasions. Do you think this is a big enough issue that they'd put a stronger spring or whatever it's lacking so the door pops open in cold weather? Do we make a petition or something?
 
BuffaloBillsfan said:
I have the same problem when it's cold when it comes to opening the charging door. I'm going to look for a rubber wedge to pry it open for those occasions. Do you think this is a big enough issue that they'd put a stronger spring or whatever it's lacking so the door pops open in cold weather? Do we make a petition or something?

Nissan seems to listen to some suggestions while ignoring others of equal or greater validity. Let them know about it, put don't put in a lot of effort.
 
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