LeftieBiker
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Re: Range anxiety..

Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:04 pm

Dooglas wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
rcrw88 wrote:Sorry, to clarify, my round trip is 97km. Not 97km each way!

I understood that. Half of 75 is 37.5.

And 37.5 miles equals 60.4 km, while half of 97 km is 48.5 km. (apples to apples)


Look at the first post. He gives both KM and miles, with 60 MILES being the commute length, not 60km.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GerryAZ
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Range anxiety..

Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:04 pm

I strongly recommend that you consider a later SL or SV with heat pump and larger battery if you want to drive a LEAF. Your highway speeds are reasonable from a range perspective so a 2015 SL or SV with no battery deterioration could make the round trip except during the worst winter conditions. As the battery starts to lose capacity, you would need some L1 charging at work on the colder days. With more deterioration, you would need L1 charging all day or a few hours of L2 at work. As the battery continues to deteriorate, you would eventually need L2 charging at work so that you would be able to start your return trip with a full charge. I don't recommend having to depend on public charging along your route on a daily basis because of the increased commuting time. Don't consider a LEAF that does not have a heat pump because the resistance heater takes more energy for cabin heat and especially for defrost (resistance heater will be active on cold days even with a heat pump so the range will be reduced compared to more moderate temperatures).
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

rcrw88
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:20 am
Delivery Date: 24 Jan 2019
Leaf Number: 4980
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Range anxiety..

Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:31 pm

GerryAZ wrote:I strongly recommend that you consider a later SL or SV with heat pump and larger battery if you want to drive a LEAF. Your highway speeds are reasonable from a range perspective so a 2015 SL or SV with no battery deterioration could make the round trip except during the worst winter conditions. As the battery starts to lose capacity, you would need some L1 charging at work on the colder days. With more deterioration, you would need L1 charging all day or a few hours of L2 at work. As the battery continues to deteriorate, you would eventually need L2 charging at work so that you would be able to start your return trip with a full charge. I don't recommend having to depend on public charging along your route on a daily basis because of the increased commuting time. Don't consider a LEAF that does not have a heat pump because the resistance heater takes more energy for cabin heat and especially for defrost (resistance heater will be active on cold days even with a heat pump so the range will be reduced compared to more moderate temperatures).


How does one check to see what heater the car has? And is this a comfort thing or does it heat the battery to improve short-term capacity? Ty

(Looked this up first, can't get a conclusive answer apart from determining if one is SL or SV.. )

LeftieBiker
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Re: Range anxiety..

Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:30 pm

The SV and SL all have the heat pump from 2013 on. The SL has leather seats. I'm going to push a bit harder than the others, though: DO NOT get a 24 kwh Leaf if you have no workplace charging. A used 30kwh Leaf would likely work, but they have battery management software issues and may also have faster battery deterioration. Nissan issued a fix that has improved range for some people, while not improving it for others. You could also get a deal on a remaining 2018 Leaf. Even a 2018 S with no heat pump would work for your commute.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Re: Range anxiety..

Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:59 pm

I agree that this commute isn't a good fit for a 24kWh LEAF (regardless of year) bar workplace charging, and maybe not even then. Having the heat pump will help, except that much of the time in the OP's winter the temps will be below the point at which the heat pump provides no advantage, and resistive heating will be used. Add winds and high rolling resistance to that, and it's too much hassle.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Dooglas
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Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: Range anxiety..

Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:50 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Dooglas wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote: I understood that. Half of 75 is 37.5.

And 37.5 miles equals 60.4 km, while half of 97 km is 48.5 km. (apples to apples)

Look at the first post. He gives both KM and miles, with 60 MILES being the commute length, not 60km.

Sigh. His number is 97 km (60 miles) RT. YOUR number is 75 mi range (half is 37.5 mi or 60.4 km)
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30 - purchased

LeftieBiker
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Re: Range anxiety..

Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Sigh. His number is 97 km (60 miles) RT. YOUR number is 75 mi range (half is 37.5 mi or 60.4 km)


I'm still pretty sick, but it seems very clear to me that a 24kwh Leaf won't do a 60 mile commute in frigid weather. Maybe you think I'm halving the 75 mile range because of it being a round trip? No. I'm halving the 75 mile estimate because driving in frigid weather cuts the car's range in half. Do you understand now? If not, I give up. I think the OP understands. This is a quote from my earlier response to him: "Divide that in half for the worst-case Winter range."
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GerryAZ
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Posts: 1971
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Range anxiety..

Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:44 pm

I believe the hybrid heater (heat pump system) became optional on SV in either 2018 or 2019. Also heated seats and steering wheel have become options for some models. I just checked Nissan's web site and only the SL shows the hybrid heater under standard features. All SV and SL models from 2013 to 2017 have the hybrid heating system (heat pump) and that feature was not available on the S models. All 2011 and 2012 models have a small electric water heater under the hood and circulate warm coolant through the heat exchanger in the dash for heating. Early 2011 models did not have the cold weather package so they did not have battery heaters, seat heaters, or steering wheel heater. The heated water system takes a lot of energy and thus has a major impact on range. The dry type resistance heater in 2013 and later models takes less energy than the heated water system; the heat pump system (which has the dry resistance heater as a backup) takes the least amount of energy to heat the cabin.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Range anxiety..

Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:13 pm

Yes, the above is correct. The OP shouldn't be looking at any Leaf before 2016 (30kwh only), though, as it wouldn't have enough range for his 60 mile RT commute in Winter.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rcrw88
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:20 am
Delivery Date: 24 Jan 2019
Leaf Number: 4980
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Range anxiety..

Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:28 pm

What temperatures are you guys assuming? My worst case of -25 still has 12% loss according to the 24kWh chart. Where are your getting the "half the range" precaution from? 97% of the temps last year and this year have been around -6, which says it drops the efficiency by 3%. Also assuming 5% capacity drop for its kms/yr.

Thanks for all your advice so far!

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