bocarat
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:01 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2019

Concerns about older Leafs (Leaves?)

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:12 am

So looking for a an earlier one to fit my budget. Came across a 2012 SL, 26k miles, excellent condition (like a new car), includes level 2 charger. $8k, private sale so no dealer fees).

BUT. only 9 bars and LeafSpy says 69.3%. Both of these put it in the worst 5% based on these charts:

https://flipthefleet.org/resources/benc ... re-buying/

So what I am worried about, is that unless an older Leaf has had its battery replaced, in 3-4 years I am looking at scrapping this (literally, given the high cost of battery replacement - $5k?) as the battery will be shot. This is not the case with say a Prius where a) the cost of battery replacement is a lot less, and b) it will still run when the battery is shot.

Thoughts on this? What am I missing?

Thx! Great forum!!

andre

flydiver
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:14 am
Delivery Date: 20 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 337789
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Concerns about older Leafs (Leaves?)

Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:55 am

A Prius will not run worth a damn when the battery is shot. Gas mileage goes down and you keep getting error messages. If the battery goes offline, the Prius is pathetic. Oh, it 'may' run, or it may not, but it's seriously sad.
Spend some time in [Priuschat]. A HUGE issue is batteries going out, For the KW/$$ the Prius battery is seriously more expensive than the Leaf. People with older Prius are frequently trying to figure out how to get around battery replacement, or at least keep the cost to less than shocking.

In some ways buying an older used Prius is even more of a crap shoot than a used Leaf. There are LOTS of expensive things that could be waiting to go bad.

One of the problems with the hybrids is they are ~4x more complicated than an ICE. They have a bunch of weird, EXPENSIVE parts that occasionally DO go bad. When they do, it's not good. Replacement of some of them just about destroys any gas saving you made with it. Luckily, they are pretty reliable, but they aren't perfect in spite of the loyal hoards.
(Disclaimer: Own a 15 Prius, and 14 Leaf)

But, I agree, it's unfortunate that the replacement cost has essentially made the Leaf disposable. Don't think I'd buy a Leaf with 9 bars. With those relatively low miles it shows the battery was not well taken care of, or came from a hotter area. It's on the way out.
2014 SL

User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9631
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Concerns about older Leafs (Leaves?)

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:20 am

$8k for a 9 bar LEAF is too much. There are better deals out there, though you may need to be patient to snag one, or look outside of your locale and have it shipped in.

Two cars on this site alone, which have warranty replacement packs and are still on 12 or 11 bars, are priced better than that.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 80,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bridgestone Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

cwerdna
Posts: 9274
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Concerns about older Leafs (Leaves?)

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:25 am

Agree with mwalsh. Run away.
bocarat wrote:So what I am worried about, is that unless an older Leaf has had its battery replaced, in 3-4 years I am looking at scrapping this (literally, given the high cost of battery replacement - $5k?) as the battery will be shot.

Replacement is now somewhere between $7-ishK and $8.5K. Not worth it on a car that has little value now.

9 bar car is probably worth $4K to 4.5K. You use it until it's useless to you and dump it, unless you can get all the modules swapped in from a pack that's in better shape for much cheaper than the above price.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4093
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Concerns about older Leafs (Leaves?)

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:52 am

flydiver wrote:A Prius will not run worth a damn when the battery is shot. Gas mileage goes down and you keep getting error messages. If the battery goes offline, the Prius is pathetic. Oh, it 'may' run, or it may not, but it's seriously sad.
Spend some time in [Priuschat]. A HUGE issue is batteries going out, For the KW/$$ the Prius battery is seriously more expensive than the Leaf.

What a mountain of BS
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4093
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Concerns about older Leafs (Leaves?)

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:54 am

mwalsh wrote:$8k for a 9 bar LEAF is too much. There are better deals out there, though you may need to be patient to snag one, or look outside of your locale and have it shipped in.

Two cars on this site alone, which have warranty replacement packs and are still on 12 or 11 bars, are priced better than that.

Yep.

I have not advertised my LEAF for sale on mnl but is up for sale locally for $8k: 12 bars, QC, 2013 model. Even if shipping cost $1000 (but probably less) it would be $9000 for a much better car.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

flydiver
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:14 am
Delivery Date: 20 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 337789
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Concerns about older Leafs (Leaves?)

Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:13 pm

SageBrush wrote:
flydiver wrote:A Prius will not run worth a damn when the battery is shot. Gas mileage goes down and you keep getting error messages. If the battery goes offline, the Prius is pathetic. Oh, it 'may' run, or it may not, but it's seriously sad.
Spend some time in [Priuschat]. A HUGE issue is batteries going out, For the KW/$$ the Prius battery is seriously more expensive than the Leaf.

What a mountain of BS


Got one that had a battery go out? I have. I know what I'm talking about.

I didn't mean that battery failure is a common or routine problem. But, when they do it's not good, and replacement is expensive. Since SO MANY people are now trying to get their hands on replacement modules (there's a LOT of OLD Prius out there now), getting good ones is tough. Replacement of modules is often just a short term solution before other modules go bad, which creates a revolving headache.
Last edited by flydiver on Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2014 SL

SageBrush
Posts: 4093
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Concerns about older Leafs (Leaves?)

Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:17 pm

flydiver wrote:Got one that had a battery go out? I have. I know what I'm talking about.

Through the years I owned 4 Prius. You most clearly are ignorant although it would not surprise me to hear that you were shafted due to stupidity.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

flydiver
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:14 am
Delivery Date: 20 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 337789
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Concerns about older Leafs (Leaves?)

Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:24 pm

SageBrush wrote:
flydiver wrote:Got one that had a battery go out? I have. I know what I'm talking about.

Through the years I owned 4 Prius. You most clearly are ignorant although it would not surprise me to hear that you were shafted due to stupidity.


Oooo, aren't you nice and supportive. :shock:

Got a 2015 in pristine condition, 45k miles. I looked for months and spent hours on line. I did due diligence. I don't think that's stupid.
2 months in the battery simply went off line. No warning at all. Ran like shit, dash board lit up like a Xmas tree. Threw some weird codes. Priuschat was of almost no use what so ever.
Then the damn thing healed itself. Never knew why it went bad. Still don't know why it's OK now some 6 months later. Pretty much takes a Hybrid (of any make) to do weird crap like that.
2014 SL

SageBrush
Posts: 4093
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Concerns about older Leafs (Leaves?)

Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:07 pm

flydiver wrote:Got a 2015 in pristine condition, 45k miles. I looked for months and spent hours on line. I did due diligence. I don't think that's stupid.
2 months in the battery simply went off line ... Then the damn thing healed itself.

Meaning ...the traction battery was not the problem and you have been around Prius for a few months. But somehow that makes you an expert on Prius traction battery longevity, repair, replacement and costs.

PriusChat would have correctly told you to replace the 12v and then report DTCs.
New, warrantied Prius traction batteries cost about $2000. They last on average 200k - 300k miles.
A 24 kWh LEAF battery is over $8000 to replace and will be hobbled in 2-3 years, below 60 miles range in about 5-6 years or ~ 45k miles.

As I said, your posts are BS
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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