Dfwtx
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 7:14 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2019
Location: Dallas, TX

Newbie: Is this 2016 Leaf SV worth it?

Wed May 01, 2019 7:23 pm

Hi all - Getting my wife a Nissan Leaf and looking at 2016s with the 107 mile range capacity.

Roughly 37k miles; 10 capacity bars; $14k otd; TX here.

I’m concerned about the 10 capacity bars. How much range can you get out of 10?

Thanks for any advice.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12756
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Newbie: Is this 2016 Leaf SV worth it?

Wed May 01, 2019 9:03 pm

Dfwtx wrote:Hi all - Getting my wife a Nissan Leaf and looking at 2016s with the 107 mile range capacity.

Roughly 37k miles; 10 capacity bars; $14k otd; TX here.

I’m concerned about the 10 capacity bars. How much range can you get out of 10?

Thanks for any advice.
There is an issue with 30kwh Leafs. Nissan claims to have solved a "BMS programming error" with a software update, but it doesn't always restore lost capacity. There are also more defects than expected in the early build 2016 packs, often resulting in bad cells. So, you want to do two things: check the build date on the driver's side door sill sticker. If it's before late Winter of 2016 (this is a guess) and definitely if it's before 2016, you should pass on the car. You also want to find out if it's had the aforementioned BMS update. If it has, pass on it. If not, there is a decent but not certain chance that the update will restore the lost ("misreported") range. You may instead want to focus on late 2016 and on 2017 cars...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Dfwtx
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 7:14 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2019
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: Newbie: Is this 2016 Leaf SV worth it?

Wed May 01, 2019 10:45 pm

Thanks for your advice didn’t know about the issues with the early builds. Definitely want to have as much range available as possible without worrying about the battery. The car was built 12/15 so it looks like it will only get worse.

I’ll keep a look out for late 2016/2017. 2018 are a little out of our price range.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12756
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Newbie: Is this 2016 Leaf SV worth it?

Thu May 02, 2019 12:15 am

Dfwtx wrote:Thanks for your advice didn’t know about the issues with the early builds. Definitely want to have as much range available as possible without worrying about the battery. The car was built 12/15 so it looks like it will only get worse.

I’ll keep a look out for late 2016/2017. 2018 are a little out of our price range.
I just want you to understand that these are two different issues. The early builds are more likely to develop cell failures. One of those could get you a new battery - or not. (It might well never happen, both because cell failures still happen in only a few cars, and because Nissan has the option - largely un-exercised so far except for a few cell replacements - to both replace cells instead of whole batteries, and to use "refurbished" cells.)

The BMS (battery management system) issue is about bars lost early, and whether or not the problem for a given car is the aforementioned BMS glitch, genuine degradation, or some combination of both. The 2017 cars are also affected by this. The best case scenario is you either get a car with range just about fully restored by the free update, or a new battery from a cell failure. The worst case is you getting stuck with a car with a poor battery.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Evoforce
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Newbie: Is this 2016 Leaf SV worth it?

Thu May 02, 2019 12:16 am

Dfwtx wrote:Thanks for your advice didn’t know about the issues with the early builds. Definitely want to have as much range available as possible without worrying about the battery. The car was built 12/15 so it looks like it will only get worse.

I’ll keep a look out for late 2016/2017. 2018 are a little out of our price range.
In Texas you really should not be looking at buying a Leaf. No liquid thermal management system! Buy an EV that has liquid cooling, especially in Texas. Just curious how many miles she needs to go and how many are freeway. Charging at work available?
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

cwerdna
Posts: 9574
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Newbie: Is this 2016 Leaf SV worth it?

Thu May 02, 2019 1:26 am

https://insideevs.com/news/338528/updat ... ng-issues/ is the update being referred to.

Prior to the update being released we had an insane # of 4 bar losers on 30 kWh Leafs. There were at least few more past http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 68#p525968. Pre-update, it was as if the 30 kWh packs were as bad as the chemistry in pre-4/2013 Leafs or even worse.

I've essentially tossed that list and will start a new one in that thread for 4-bar losers POST update.
Evoforce wrote: In Texas you really should not be looking at buying a Leaf. No liquid thermal management system! Buy an EV that has liquid cooling, especially in Texas. Just curious how many miles she needs to go and how many are freeway. Charging at work available?
Agreed.

This is why I always ask this:
Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

And, in TX, I hear there drive pretty fast. How fast would the freeway driving be (if any)?

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12756
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Newbie: Is this 2016 Leaf SV worth it?

Thu May 02, 2019 2:10 am

Are we even sure that the first post is mentioning Texas?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9574
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Newbie: Is this 2016 Leaf SV worth it?

Thu May 02, 2019 2:39 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Are we even sure that the first post is mentioning Texas?
Not positive... would be nice if the location field were required.

But, they did say "TX here" and their handle is Dfwtx. DFW sounds like Dallas Fort Worth to me.

Hope the OP clarifies and answers the questions I asked.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Dfwtx
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 7:14 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2019
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: Newbie: Is this 2016 Leaf SV worth it?

Thu May 02, 2019 7:29 am

I updated my location in my profile. Yes I’m based in Dallas (unfortunately :D)

She will drive about 20 miles for her daily commute and roughly another 10-20 miles for random errands throughout the day.
Roughly 50/50 highway city driving. AC will be used. Her dad used to have a leaf, before it got totaled, so she is familiar with the range limitations and charging. Speed would be 65-70 on the highway.
We just got rid of an old Q5 because a big repair bill came through so that’s why we are looking for a cheap errand car.

If I’m reading correctly, the BMS update may fix the capacity bar but no guarantee.

goldbrick
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Newbie: Is this 2016 Leaf SV worth it?

Thu May 02, 2019 11:19 am

Dfwtx wrote:If I’m reading correctly, the BMS update may fix the capacity bar but no guarantee.
Yes, the BMS update should make the battery health reporting more accurate. Without that, you can't tell much about the true state of the battery (the errors made it look worse than it was). With the update, then you can determine the true health of the battery. As mentioned, early 30kWh batteries had some issues, later ones seem better.

Otherwise, $14k for a (12 bar) 30kWh Leaf would be a fair deal here in CO. Prices vary a lot by region due to util rebates and tax credits

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