LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 11963
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Bought a 2013 Leaf With Low Capacity

Thu May 23, 2019 10:00 pm

SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Dealers should never post the original range number for a 5+ year old EV without explicitly noting it as such.

Because you said so ? This moderator gig is going to your head.


Because unless it is listed as the original range, the figure is a lie - in print. There is little enough to protect Leaf buyers as it is.

Now stop criticizing me or I'll turn you into a newt.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4027
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Bought a 2013 Leaf With Low Capacity

Thu May 23, 2019 11:30 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Dealers should never post the original range number for a 5+ year old EV without explicitly noting it as such.

Because you said so ? This moderator gig is going to your head.


Because unless it is listed as the original range, the figure is a lie - in print. There is little enough to protect Leaf buyers as it is.

No used car is expected to meet that bar of new car specs. They are used. It's true that the LEAF is 3 SD from the mean but any line you draw is arbitrary and capricious. You will have to find a different way to protect or inform consumers.

Now stop criticizing me or I'll turn you into a newt.

That does not sound so bad.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 11963
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Bought a 2013 Leaf With Low Capacity

Fri May 24, 2019 12:05 am

This particular Leaf is down four bars, IIRC. It has a range of about 40 miles, not 75. It is common enough to advertise the original EPA range, but to give that number - or a figure close to it - as the current range is no different from advertising, say, a Civic hybrid with a bad battery as getting 45MPG when it is completely incapable of doing so. I'm a bit surprised that you think dealers should be able to lie about something as basic and vital as range when selling used EVs. We'll just have to disagree on this.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
jlv
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Bought a 2013 Leaf With Low Capacity

Fri May 24, 2019 7:49 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Because unless it is listed as the original range, the figure is a lie
And dealers have never been known to lie to sell a car. ;)
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Tesla X 100D (12/18)
75K 100% BEV miles since '14
ICE free since '18

SageBrush
Posts: 4027
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Bought a 2013 Leaf With Low Capacity

Fri May 24, 2019 8:16 am

LeftieBiker wrote:This particular Leaf is down four bars, IIRC. It has a range of about 40 miles, not 75. It is common enough to advertise the original EPA range, but to give that number - or a figure close to it - as the current range is no different from advertising, say, a Civic hybrid with a bad battery as getting 45MPG when it is completely incapable of doing so. I'm a bit surprised that you think dealers should be able to lie about something as basic and vital as range when selling used EVs. We'll just have to disagree on this.

You misunderstand my point. The dealer is simply reporting new car specs. You can BET that they do not represent the car as new or that it meets new car specs. You are misreading the advert.

Does the dealer want you to think that the car will have a 75 mile range ? Of course. But that is besides the point.
And incidentally, the dealer is just as clueless as it is misleading. It paid over $6k for that car. Would you like to legislate minimum competency ? It is not a bad idea -- revoke voting rights from trumpers, for a start.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 11963
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Bought a 2013 Leaf With Low Capacity

Fri May 24, 2019 12:01 pm

I have already stated that listing the EPA range is acceptable, if misleading. Reporting "75.0 mi battery range" with no context is lying.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4027
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Bought a 2013 Leaf With Low Capacity

Fri May 24, 2019 12:49 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I have already stated that listing the EPA range is acceptable, if misleading. Reporting "75.0 mi battery range" with no context is lying.

I am saying that every used car advertised displays the specs of the car when new. This is not a LEAF specific stunt.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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