gartaylor
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:26 am

mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27trips

Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:58 pm

just dropped off my Leaf for 1st 6 month maintenance. I charted the last 27 trips - and we only averaged 67 miles per charge in city driving. These were all roundtrips, so minor elevation changes shouldn't matter. Everything I read before we bought said Nissan was confident about the 100 mile range. Nissan's announcements, etc. Got into argument with Nissan service today - he said Nissan NEVER said it'd get 100 miles. Now I see all this new discussion about 40% variations, etc. Those were never indicated before we bought. Now, as temperature gets lower here in Oregon, I'll bet we'll get 50 miles or less per charge. Dealer service said Nissan will not install a battery heater on 2011 models. Any class action suits ore "lemon law" returns out there on Nissan Leafs?

Stoaty
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Leaf Number: 3871
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Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:11 pm

You mean you drove it down near turtle and only got 67 miles? How low was the fuel gauge when the 67 miles finished? Charging to 100% or 80%? How much elevation gain (it makes a difference, even if round trip)? Using the heater or A/C? ECO mode or not? How aggressive is your driving style?

Bottom line is that your mileage is right in line with EPA official rating of 73 miles. The 100 miles is for the LA-04 cycle. The least bit of research on your part would have shown this.
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surfingslovak
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Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:19 pm

gartaylor wrote:Got into argument with Nissan service today - he said Nissan NEVER said it'd get 100 miles. Now I see all this new discussion about 40% variations, etc. Those were never indicated before we bought. Now, as temperature gets lower here in Oregon, I'll bet we'll get 50 miles or less per charge. Dealer service said Nissan will not install a battery heater on 2011 models. Any class action suits ore "lemon law" returns out there on Nissan Leafs?

Gary, your sentiment is understandable. I was quite disappointed two weeks after I bought the car, especially about the fact that Nissan would not tell me how much of the total pack capacity was usable and what the 12 bars on the battery gauge represented. Their customer support was tightlipped and quite useless and if it wasn't for this forum, I would likely be still scratching my head.

Your service manager was incorrect, Nissan stated that the Leaf has 100 miles real-world range frequently and repeatedly. Unfortunately, the EPA rated its range at 73 miles, and that's what the sticker on the car said when we purchased it. I'm not sure if there was anything actionable from a legal standpoint, but it certainly doen't make me want to buy another car from Nissan. Although I'm fairly confident that the technology they used in the car will perform well over the years, I don't have a very favorable opinion of them as a corporate entity so far.

About the battery heater: it's unlikely to help you in any way. It would only turn on if the car was parked in very low temperatures for an extended period of time.

Mark Perry, Nissan North America wrote:Our engineers have developed a lithium-ion battery that goes 100 miles of real-world
range. We are completely confident in its performance, its durability and the amount of time it will work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0LkwBgQdtg&t=117
Last edited by surfingslovak on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Boomer23
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Location: Orange County, CA

Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:24 pm

Since you, like me, got your LEAF six or more months ago, did you get the software update that Nissan recommended in early April? It was included in cars delivered in late April or May, as memory serves. That update is known to make it appear that you have less charge remaining than you really have. In effect, it created a "reserve tank" of one or more bars.

How do you define "empty" when you measure your 67 miles? Are you getting down to the first or second "low battery" warning or are you considering yourself empty when you use up the last white bar, leaving two red bars remaining?

Your range is at the very low end of what is being reported by most owners on this forum. If hills are not the reason, then use of the heater (a big power draw), freeway driving above 65 mph, and aggressive acceleration and braking are likely causes. You should be able to get 75 miles or more with conservative driving on level roads. I have friends who have driven 100 miles or more, including freeway driving, but carefully and keeping economical driving in mind.

Take a look at Tony Williams' excellent range guide in the thread referenced below. Your driving range should fit in with the chart that Tony made. The key is to keep the energy economy scale on your main dash display. If you're driving at 4.0 mi/kWh, you should be getting over 80 miles to Empty.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295&hilit=range+thumb

Lastly, as I'm sure many here will tell you, you signed a paper when you took delivery of the car that said that you understood that the LEAF's range is variable, dependent on driving style, temperature and use of climate control. You have no grounds to sue Nissan.

EDIT: Taking range readings on round trips does not eliminate the effect of hills. Driving up hills reduces range significantly. Driving down hills replaces some, but not all, energy with regen braking. But both uphills and downhills cause energy drain compared to the same distance on flat terrain. If your routes include hills, even if they are round trips, you are using more energy.
Last edited by Boomer23 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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leafmealone
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Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:31 pm

+1

camasleaf
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Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:23 pm

What is your miles/kWh average? Is your car parked outside? Where in Oregon do you live?
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LEAFfan
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Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:20 am

Gar, that doesn't sound right at all. I only charge to 80% and I easily get over 100 miles on that charge in city driving (38mph). Since you said yours is city driving, are you using ECO all the time? Make sure you check your energy screen to make sure your heater isn't on. Granted, I'm a hypermiler, and very rarely use more than one bubble on the meter. But city driving is where you can really increase your m/kW h. This battery pack has exceeded my expectations. I expected to easily get 100 miles on a 100% charge, but was surprised to easily get 100 miles on an 80% charge when not using the HVAC. Like today, RT was 60 miles on all city streets and at one point (before the elevation rise) was at 6.8m/kW h. When we arrived home, I had 6.5m/kW h (dash) with 2 bars showing but actually had about 4 left and could have driven another 50 miles. Ignore the GOM and the bars and like someone else said, make a copy of Tony's range chart.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
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cwerdna
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Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:22 am

FWIW, Edmunds did a test and confirmed the bitter end after 132.0 miles. See http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2 ... r-end.html.

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LEAFfan
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Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:37 am

cwerdna wrote:FWIW, Edmunds did a test and confirmed the bitter end after 132.0 miles. See http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2 ... r-end.html.


LOL, if I wanted to, I could smash that record to smithereens just driving on city streets. In their road test, they set their cruise to 35mph. Therefore, they had no use of 'N' or regen. It makes a tremendous difference when you use 'N' and or regen vs. neither.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

cwerdna
Posts: 8301
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Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:46 am

LEAFfan wrote:
cwerdna wrote:FWIW, Edmunds did a test and confirmed the bitter end after 132.0 miles. See http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2 ... r-end.html.


LOL, if I wanted to, I could smash that record to smithereens just driving on city streets. In their road test, they set their cruise to 35mph. Therefore, they had no use of 'N' or regen. It makes a tremendous difference when you use 'N' and or regen vs. neither.

You really think so? Putting energy into the battery via regen and taking it back out will incur losses from conversion, electrical resistances, etc. The coasting in 'N' case might be interesting though...

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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