edatoakrun
Posts: 5218
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:42 pm

"SanDust"

It's true that I called out Nissan for the 100 mile claim from day one, but that wasn't because of any bias. That was just because of the numbers. We know for a fact that a standard mid-sized vehicle uses 220 wh/mile on the Urban Cycle... So tell me how you can get 100 miles of range out of a 24 kWh battery (estimated 19 kWh usable) using 220 to 395 wh/mile? The fact is you can't. Numbers don't lie...

The LEAF battery pack has about 20.5 kWh usable.

BEVs utilize regenerative braking. ICEVs waste this energy by converting it to heat, so of course they use more wh/mile, comparing vehicles of identical weight and drag.

To get 100 mile range in a LEAF, you must average about 4.9 m/kWh. Not possible at freeway speeds, but often achieved in a variety of urban (and rural) driving conditions.
no condition is permanent

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:58 pm

scottf200 wrote:We are talking about EVs and range and what affects it.


Exactly! EVs/BEVs, not hybrids. A Volt is a hybrid, not an EV. Enjoy your Hybrid Forum!
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:21 am

SanDust wrote: So tell me how you can get 100 miles of range out of a 24 kWh battery (estimated 19 kWh usable) using 220 to 395 wh/mile? The fact is you can't. Numbers don't lie.


The estimated usable is 21, not 19. The 17 (80%) and 21 (100%) numbers have been pretty spot on for me. It's much more accurate to X these by your dash m/kW h than any other method. I don't feel that Nissan has been mistaken about their 100 mile range. They said you could get anywhere from 62 (@75mph) to 138 (@35-38mph) depending on how you drive and the conditions, use of HVAC, etc. I don't even need 100% charging to get 100 miles. It's a piece of cake for me at 80% charging. So if someone were to drive a littleconservatively, it isn't really that hard to get 5.0m/kW h or better. We drove over 85 miles today and when we arrived home I had 6.7m/kWh on the dash from one charge. At 80% that is 114 miles! Now, I don't expect many drivers to match that, but I can't believe they can't hit at least 5.0 on a 100% charge unless they use the freeways exclusively.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

bowthom
Posts: 651
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 307
Location: Portland Oregon

Re: mad about averaging only 67 miles per charge in last 27t

Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:49 am

gartaylor,
I live in PDX as well and my commute takes me from SE to N Portland -300 ft and back up 150 ft, 10 miles (opposite for return trip). I manage better efficiency than my wife who insists on driving "normal." I assume this means ICE style. During the summer I was averaging 4.8 ~ 5.0 m/kWh. Not sure what the wife gets but the aggregate ave was 4.3 m/kWh. Now that the temp is dropping our aggregate is 3.8 ~ 4.0 m/kWh having to use some heat and defrost. If you look through some threads you will see postings by me trying to make sense of the GOM and other gauge metrics. If you are trying to calculate total range by counting Battery bars in the middle of the GOM and extrapolating, your numbers will be skewed. My GOM consistently figures only 1.2 kWh / battery bar on bars 6 to 10. The top bars are "bigger" and the lower bars are "bigger yet" with that invisible reserve when all bars are gone. I posted pictures of my dash in exactly the state you spoke of. I lose 4 battery bars commuting round trip then find when charging I only used 4.8 kWh of power so it looks much worse than it is. I was experiencing variable GOM metrics before my charger was replaced.

I keep detailed records of my driving and power usage if you would like to meet sometime and discuss what's going on.

Don
Reserv Apr 20 - Ord Aug 31
Red - ETEC trim
BLINK inst 3/14/11 (rev 2.1.2B)
P1213 4/29/11 - Charger repl 6/8/11
P1273 2/15/12 - P32270 10/2/13
TCU upgrd 2/15/17
-1bar 11/8/14 -2bars 6/28/16 -3bars 7/12/18
Est. del 2/28/11

Deliver 2/23/11 - 68k+ mi

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