what is the read-out to the left of the speedometer?

Finally took a test drive yesterday. The incompetent sales weasel was less than helpful when answering questions about the car. Can someone tell me what this dial readout to the left of the speedo is portraying:



I couldn't make any sense out of it after watching it during the drive -- it seamed to be completely arbitrary.


Overall, I was pleasantly surprised with the drive. Was even more surprised that the rear seat can actually accommodate 3 child seats with 5-point harnesses (Sunshine Radian seat)! There was not a 1/4 inch to spare, but, they did fit.

With that hurdle crossed, we are currently doing a 2-week daily drive data gathering test on our family car to see how many run-round miles we can take off of that car and replace with a Leaf. Back-of-the napkin math shows the leaf saving 6 cents/mile in fuel costs -- that's going to take along time to reach break even. It's probably a pipe dream to expect it to break even economically, but, that's my criteria...

foobert said:

Can someone tell me what this dial readout to the left of the speedo is portraying:

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Eco trees.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2440" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:roll: :lol: :roll:

Well, that would explain why it was seamed arbitrary. I wasn't exactly driving in a way to save electrons.

Thanks for the quick reply!

foobert said:

that's going to take along time to reach break even. It's probably a pipe dream to expect it to break even economically, but, that's my criteria...

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And please tell me how you can buy any car and break even? Ride the bus to break even.

foobert said:

Finally took a test drive yesterday. The incompetent sales weasel was less than helpful when answering questions about the car. Can someone tell me what this dial readout to the left of the speedo is portraying:

Back-of-the napkin math shows the leaf saving 6 cents/mile in fuel costs -- that's going to take along time to reach break even. It's probably a pipe dream to expect it to break even economically, but, that's my criteria...

Click to expand...

I drive 50 miles commute daily.
it used to cost me $8-9 a day in gas.
Now it costs me $1 on my electric bill.

it used to cost me 16 cents a mile in gas, now it is 2 cents a mile.
that does not include any costs for oil, tune ups, etc.
of course, you have to buy a 35k car and the charger, but you can get back on the car about 10k in state and federal subsidies, and there are tax credits for the charger and free ones, too.

JohnnySebring said:

And please tell me how you can buy any car and break even? Ride the bus to break even.

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It's a simple opportunity cost that should be evaluated against comparable solutions; namely a new, dino powered, mid sized econo box capable of schlepping around 3 kids.

Public transit (around here) would hardly be a a comparable solution, but, I grant you that if a person's time was of very little value, it may well be economically favorable. But, really a bicycle would be better, and putting one foot in front of the other even better yet.

Alas, I didn't come here looking to get/give snarky comments about anyone's lifestyle choices...

How long do you keep your cars and how many miles you drive per year?

foobert said:

Back-of-the napkin math shows the leaf saving 6 cents/mile in fuel costs -- that's going to take along time to reach break even. It's probably a pipe dream to expect it to break even economically, but, that's my criteria...

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Hmmm, there's a name for that kind of math, just can't think of it right now (just thought of it...fuzzy math!). However, you will definitely save a LOT more than 6 cents/mile with the LEAF. With my old Honda GX which could get over 50mpg hwy, high 40's city, CNG at $1.75, I still am saving much more than 6 cents a mile! Make sure you add in all the maintenance your ICE car is going to need to your cents per mile figure after you redo it and find it is much more. The only necessary maintenance for the LEAF is a yearly battery pack check and that is free the first two years, plus the normal tire rotations which can be done for free also.

I keep a car until it is no longer cost effective to repair. The car that the Leaf would give the boot to is a 1997 that I've owned since then; it isn't purty looking, but, it still runs fine. Technically, it hasn't hit the wall, but, it's approaching the point were a new transmission will be needed. Maybe tomorrow, or maybe in 40K miles, or possibly even more if I'm really lucky compared to others' experiences (I'm rarely so lucky).

The "how many miles" is hard to answer with relevance. The "family" car gets 16K miles per year, but we do 3-5K miles a year on long interstate trips. Since it's not used for commuting, we are starting a daily driving log to see what sort of trips it goes on over the course of 2 weeks to get data on how many miles would be transferable to a Leaf.

I know my wife racks up a bunch of trips in a day that any one of them alone would be easy for the Leaf, but, the accumulation for the day is the unknown.

foobert said:

... we are starting a daily driving log to see what sort of trips it goes on over the course of 2 weeks to get data on how many miles would be transferable to a Leaf...

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We wound up transferring many more of our miles to the Leaf than we had expected, since it's such a pleasant and handy car. Basically, any collection of trips in a day under about 60 miles in total, or more if you partially recharge partway through the day (lunch), or if you drive mostly on surface streets rather than mostly on the freeway.

The Leaf will be a complete shock to operate if it replaces a 1997 car, like the difference between using a smartphone and using a lawnmower.

The Leaf is also probably quite a bit safer than either your 1997 car or the lawnmower.

LEAFfan said:

... you will definitely save a LOT more than 6 cents/mile with the LEAF. ... Make sure you add in all the maintenance your ICE car is going to need to your cents per mile figure ... The only necessary maintenance for the LEAF is a yearly battery pack check ...

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You are correct - it's more than fuel in the final costs and I have attempted to account for everything. I keep total records of operating my Jetta TDI wagon. It's currently running ~2.9¢/mile in maintenance for everything, excluding my time for the things that I can do myself. Fuel is running 7.9 cents/mile, for a total cost of 10.8¢/mile for the Jetta (excluding fixed costs like insurance, registration, etc...)

Now, the Leaf:
Assuming wall power of 3.5 miles/kwh, at a cost of 9¢/kW, that comes to 2.6¢/mile for electrons.
The leaf is not maintenance free. The dealer quoted ~$150 for the annual battery check-up. Let's say I drive a round 10K miles annually, so, that's 1.5¢/mile. Tires on my current car are running right at 1.0¢/mile, and I don't expect the Leaf would be much different.
So, the grand total for the Leaf is 5.1¢/mile.

Thus, the difference is roughly 5.7¢/mile. Mind you, I'm still trying understand all the options that PG&E provides with time-of-use metering. So, if someone that does not have solar would like to chime in on what they have done with PG&E, I'm all ears!

The dealer lied to you about the $150 battery check. It is FREE the first two years and then you can take it to anyone that has the equipment to check it after that. And yes, the LEAF is basically maintenance free. :mrgreen:

LEAFfan said:

The dealer lied to you about the $150 battery check. It is FREE the first two years and then you can take it to anyone that has the equipment to check it after that. And yes, the LEAF is basically maintenance free.

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Quite the contrary. The dealer did what any good salesman should do and hid behind the fact that the the first 2 battery check ups are free and then generally did his best to evade my questions regarding the cost of the other 6. It was only after I directly asked and bypassed his evasion that he finally contacted the shop to inquire about the costs.

You can certainly chose to ignore this maintenance item if you wish to insist that it, along with tires and brakes and fluids and general inspections, does not fall under the umbrella of maintenance. But, Nissan is quite clear that the battery checkup Needs To Be Done if you desire their responsiveness should the batteries have any problems not relating to loss of capacity:

You are required to perform annual EV Battery Usage Report at intervals of 12 months, 24 months, 36 months, 48 months, 60 months, 72 months, and 84 months. These EV Battery Usage Reports can be performed by a Nissan LEAF certified dealer or any qualified repair shop facility. The 12 and 24 month EV Battery Usage Report will be performed at no charge to the customer, provided the work is done at a Nissan LEAF certified dealer. Any damage or failure resulting from a failure to have these required services performed, or that could have been avoided had these services been performed, is not covered under warranty. Any damage or failure resulting from a failure to have these required services performed, or that could have been avoided had these services been performed, is not covered under warranty.

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I doubt if any of us are going to try to bypass the battery check. The point is that you should never have to pay an inflated dealer price for it. Three years from now there will be many independent repair shops with the required equipment.

Ray

We too bought the Leaf for the TCO. Now two months later, it appears to be a no-brainer.

There is a certain leap of faith and sense of adventure that the early adopters come with. We live with the uncertainty but do tend to view the world with rose colored glasses. The purported $150 annual battery maintenance is a blip in the big picture.