New Leaf Enthusiast from Singapore

Hiya, was recommended to join in the discussion (and occasionally lurk) in the forums by a leaf owner that i know.
Had my first experience in a Leaf earlier this month in the US and was absolutely fell in love with it.
For someone who does not travel much and on the verge of requiring a 'family mover' soon, the Leaf would be a perfect solution to our needs +it doesn't run on petrol/gasoline (not a fan of the high oil prices and also exhaust smoke)

Where i am from, the Leaf is currently under test-bedding with all the other electric vehicles. I believe the Miev and Smart - Twos.
Hope to learn more about the Leaf in this forum while 'patiently' awaiting the implementation of EVs in Singapore. Hopefully it would happen sooner rather than later.
Will keep everyone updated about any EV implementations in SG if there is significant interest. :lol:

Iz...

Welcome. Yes, please...love to hear how the LEAF is doing in all environments!

I recall Singapore has a hefty tax based on size of engine and am curious how the EV would be rated?

A search brings up http://cars.st701.com/articles/view/3615" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

which calls for EV rating in KW. So the LEAF would be road taxed at 80KW or S$932 per year -- how does this compare to ICE vehicles common to Singapore?

Many thanks for the welcome mwalsh. Will do my outmost to help.

Nekota,
with that kind of road tax, we are roughly looking at a ICE vehicle of about 1800cc.
Come to think of it, its a pretty high price to pay for road tax for an electric vehicle that will basically do more good than harm.
For comparison sake, a Honda Fit/Jazz (1300cc) would cost SGD 568 a year. :shock:

To add on, a new Leaf if sold under retail and with governmental rebates would cost around SGD 90000. :shock: :roll:
According to this... http://www.asiaone.com/Motoring/News/Story/A1Story20110729-291673.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Iz...

What a great place for a city car! The island is what, about 35 km end to end the long way? You probably won't have much "range anxiety" there. Do people often drive across the bridge to Malaysia for business or for weekend holidays? If so, is there a joint program between the two governments to install charging stations?

We have a similar situation here in San Diego (except for the part about being on an island with an international border and no charging stations on the other side. There are a few charging stations just this side of the border, so I someone could (buy Mexican insurance and) venture a short way into Mexico. Maybe one could L1 charge at a hotel overnight for a weekend trip.

Do homes in Singapore typically have garages or dedicated parking spaces where charging stations could be installed, or will you be relying on public charging infrastructure? I'm glad you're letting us know about EVS coming to Singapore.

walterbays said:

What a great place for a city car! The island is what, about 35 km end to end the long way? You probably won't have much "range anxiety" there. Do people often drive across the bridge to Malaysia for business or for weekend holidays? If so, is there a joint program between the two governments to install charging stations?

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The last time I was in Singapore (mid 1990s), one could not drive an ICE into Malaysia with less than 3/4 tank of gasoline. Apparently this was to prevent Singaporeans from going to Malaysia to buy cheaper gasoline. With a LEAF should not be a problem, except the range will be more limited without QC.

I think Singapore is a great place for driving a LEAF. Since the country is not very far from the equator, there is no need for a heater, but AC will come in handy.

Welcome to the forum. Keep us posted on the EV views from Singapore!

Some initial questions:
1. Since most Singaporeans live in high rise condos, how would the charging infrastructure be implemented?

2. Parking- how is the govt planning to offer designated EV parking?

BTW, the Malaysians are trialling as well...
http://paultan.org/2011/09/14/proton-hands-over-eight-evs-to-government-for-fleet-testing-trials-five-exora-reev-and-three-saga-evs-to-be-deployed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi Nucleus,

Welcome to the Forum, and glad there's movement on the EV front in Singapore. Singapore is quite a different place for car ownership. My colleague mentioned to me that cost of the COE can be as much as the car itself?

I go to Singapore for business every year, and find that they have the nicest Taxi system (As well as the drivers) in all of Asia. You can book via automated phone system, drivers all speak English, and you always get a receipt so you know they are not ripping you off. I think it's also the perfect place for Taxi to go all EV, being a city-state.

walterbays said:

Do people often drive across the bridge to Malaysia for business or for weekend holidays? If so, is there a joint program between the two governments to install charging stations?

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Some people do drive over to Malaysia for shopping / eating out. From what I recall, traffic can be horrible on the bridge.

Do homes in Singapore typically have garages or dedicated parking spaces where charging stations could be installed, or will you be relying on public charging infrastructure? I'm glad you're letting us know about EVS coming to Singapore.

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About 90% of the people in Singapore live in high rise apartments. There may be a parking lot or building assigned to your car, but specific parking space is not usually assigned. If the government supports electric cars, however, infrastructure will not be a problem. And since the household voltage is 230V, it's one less thing to worry about.

The air conditioner will likely be used all the time in Singapore. Traffic can get fairly heavy, so I wonder what kind of range the car is going to get. No worries about cold weather affecting the battery though. I don't recall the temperature falling below 24 C (75 F).

yoyofella said:

I think it's also the perfect place for Taxi to go all EV, being a city-state.

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Taxis usually cruise the streets looking for fares, and due to the high rental price, can't afford to spend hours being recharged. DC quick charge will kill the batteries if used too often, so longer running time and a way to swap out battery packs is required (or better battery technology).

Heya,

Sorry couldn't quote and respond to all as I am replying from my device (lots of hassle not on my desktop)

Walterbays,

I do agree it's a very good location to have EVs running around. Driving across the causeway to Johor will not be much of an issue as most of the time, Singaporeans, who go over are there to shop and the range won't be that far also. With about 130-140km of range, it's more than enough for me.

There are a range of houses in SG. Mostly though high rised buildings with underground or adjoining multi stores carparks. Implementation for EVs in my opinion would be a breeze as infrastructurally we are ready. Just a matter of governmental 'encouragement'.

However, I would think that more public charging infrastructure would be available as then they would be able to charge more for these services, Chademo chargers a high possibility.

Linkim,

Yes you are right. The ruling for 3/4 tank still applies for the very same reason that you have mentioned. Your worry would be the same as mine and also my colleague (who drives a leaf as well).
Not too sure if any of the current leaf owners has driven in weather such as SG.

Mxp,

Thanks for the welcome. To answer your queries,

1. For this I would think that the basement/multi story car parks would be able to be implemented easily as we have the electrical infrastructure ready. For those who have their own garages. I do not think its very difficult for them to own personal charges. For those in public housing, the chargers would be owned by the electrical companies or government which will then be available at a cost to EV owners.

2. Designated EV parking lots, something touchy actually. In land scarce Singapore, getting your own lot in public housing is already a challenge. I would think that the government would have to make a stand and provide some benefits and privileges to those who would want to own an EV.

Yoyofella,

Hey glad to know that you have had nice experiences in SG. You are well informed of the fact that COE, Certificate of Entitlement, would cost almost as much as the car. Currently, cost of a COE for a small car would be around SGD 48000. I could buy an SL trim Leaf with this!!! :lol:

My dad drives a taxi in SG and he would average about 300km for his shift. Should we break it so that he takes a break every 100km, he would roughly need 3 fast charges. Something that he would be able to carry out if implementation is to take place but it would also have to depend on the uptake with the taxi companies.

Lenny,

Many thanks on the help to answer the queries made. I see that you are quite well versed on Singapore. Can I take it as you are a local in SG too? If you are, nice to know you..!!!

Iz...

nucleus said:

Lenny,

Many thanks on the help to answer the queries made. I see that you are quite well versed on Singapore. Can I take it as you are a local in SG too? If you are, nice to know you..!!!

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Grew up (and driven) in Singapore. Been away for many years now but still visit regularly. Hope to see some Leafs on the street the next time I visit. Maybe yours?

Don't recall what's the rate for electricity in Singapore though. How much do you pay per kWH? Is it tiered (pay at a higher rate if you use above a certain baseline)?

lenny said:

Grew up (and driven) in Singapore. Been away for many years now but still visit regularly. Hope to see some Leafs on the street the next time I visit. Maybe yours?

Don't recall what's the rate for electricity in Singapore though. How much do you pay per kWH? Is it tiered (pay at a higher rate if you use above a certain baseline)?

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That's nice. Was it a decision of yours to move? Any tips? :lol:
The pace and lifestyle here is becoming much too fast for my liking. Hehe. Considering my options

Are you visiting soon? If you are, most probably any EVs that you see on the road would probably be under test bedding still.
The EV test bedding project will run till 2013. No individual sale is allowed till after that i believe. Now, its only leasing for trial and fleet purposes.
I do hope to own the Leaf when its available to the masses though (fingers crossed, the prices are not exorbitant, i do believe you know what i mean here.)

On the electrical tariffs, its revised every 3 months. You can have a look at the link below and yeah, we only have one agency providing power to the whole island.

http://www.singaporepower.com.sg/irj/go/km/docs/wpccontent/Sites/SP%20Services/Site%20Content/Tariffs/documents/latest_press_release.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Further updates on current EV implementations.

- The EV test bedding project began Mid 2011
- Bosch was appointed Charging Service Provider (CSP) to design, develop, deploy, operate and maintain Singapore's EV charging infrastructure as part of the EV test-bed programme.
- Currently, there are supposedly to be a total of 25 normal charging stations (Lvl 1 and 2 i believe) and 1 quick charging station (chademo?)
- By 2016, Bosch will design, develop and deploy up to 60 normal charging and 3 quick charging stations. This stations will also be maintained and operated by Bosch.

Got to run as i need to carry out some errands.

Will be back later to post more details on the EV charging infra in SG currently.

Iz...

nucleus said:

That's nice. Was it a decision of yours to move? Any tips? :lol:

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It's just one of those things, one thing happening after another, opportunities came up and so on, wasn't any plan from the beginning. But the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side of the fence

Currently, there are supposedly to be a total of 25 normal charging stations (Lvl 1 and 2 i believe) and 1 quick charging station (chademo?)

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There shouldn't be any Level 1 chargers in Singapore since that is 120V. Are they integrating the chargers with the cash card system in every car? Seems like it can be a really convenient way to pay for charging.

Looking at the PDF, you're paying about US$0.235 per kWH. What I found amusing (because I'm no longer living there) is the justification for the rate increase, about higher fuel oil price - and they take great pains to point out that your rate increase is less than the increase in oil price. Singapore's electricity production is primarily from natural gas. But let's not get into that here

lenny said:

It's just one of those things, one thing happening after another, opportunities came up and so on, wasn't any plan from the beginning. But the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side of the fence

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Yeah thats true as well but having a choice won't hurt.

lenny said:

There shouldn't be any Level 1 chargers in Singapore since that is 120V. Are they integrating the chargers with the cash card system in every car? Seems like it can be a really convenient way to pay for charging.

Looking at the PDF, you're paying about US$0.235 per kWH. What I found amusing (because I'm no longer living there) is the justification for the rate increase, about higher fuel oil price - and they take great pains to point out that your rate increase is less than the increase in oil price. Singapore's electricity production is primarily from natural gas. But let's not get into that here

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Sorry about the level 1 thingy, shows how much i need to pick up from this forum if ever i were to be a knowledgeable person in EVs hehe.
They are looking at something like that, now we have a CEPAS (newer type)cash card .
On the Electrical charges, you are not the only one who is amused by the justification of rate increase but yeah lets not get into that.

----------------
So on to the updates,

As mentioned earlier, Bosch was appointed CSP in Singapore. Got to know that one of my old classmate is an employee there currently so i bugged him for some information. He gave me some information (nothing confidential though) for me to find out more.
As of now, the available cars are supposed to be running around the island (i have yet to see any though) are

- Mitsubishi i-Miev
- Nissan Leaf
- Renault Kangoo
- Renault Fluence
- Smart -ED

Bosch has a website that you can register, yourself and the EV that you are driving, into the infrastructure.
Once done, you will be able to complete the registration with the CEPAS card that you are going to use to enable charging.
The site that they provide has information of all the charging stations that are around the island. Most of these stations are available in the centre of the island.
Total count at the moment is 27 charging stations. Most likely level 2s and we should have 1 fast charging station already. Im trying to ascertain where that is right now.
Of these 27, only 4 are public charging stations while the rest are privately owned and 1 of the private stations is an indoor charging station.

Charging is not free and for the period of test bedding, users can subscribe to a monthly plan of $180 for unlimited charging. I wouldn't mind if they extended this pricing and included season parking as well once implementation takes place.
Season parking for public housing is currently @ SGD90. I wouldn't mind paying another SGD 90 to ensure that i can charge my car overnight as well at home and anywhere else on the island.

The site also tells you which charging station is currently being occupied, same as some of the apps and sites that you have in the States as well.

I'm going to have to take some time off and hunt for these stations to see how it looks like.

Iz...

nucleus said:

lenny said:

Charging is not free and for the period of test bedding, users can subscribe to a monthly plan of $180 for unlimited charging. I wouldn't mind if they extended this pricing and included season parking as well once implementation takes place.

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That seems rather high. How much do you estimate the average driver pays for gas per month in Singapore?

Someone started this thread : http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7400" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; about flat rate EV charging in Tokyo.

Do post some photos if you manage to find the stations.

lenny said:

nucleus said:

lenny said:

Charging is not free and for the period of test bedding, users can subscribe to a monthly plan of $180 for unlimited charging. I wouldn't mind if they extended this pricing and included season parking as well once implementation takes place.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

That seems rather high. How much do you estimate the average driver pays for gas per month in Singapore?

Someone started this thread : http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7400" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; about flat rate EV charging in Tokyo.

Do post some photos if you manage to find the stations.

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Sorry for getting back so late.
For gas, we are looking about SGD300-400 for a smaller cc car and about SGD500-600 for a bigger cc car (anything above 2000cc) or for those who travel a lot.

Yeah, ill go around and see if i can grab some photos.

Iz..