Newbie Questions - Lease Takeover, Modifications to Vehicle

Hi everyone:

In truth, a Leaf is not my best option since I don't live close enough to a mid-sized town and my other destination points, but my questions:

- Is Lease takeover proving to be a viable option for folks who don't want to lock themselves into a long-term deal while waiting for other plug-in models to come out? Anything I should watch out for?

- Entirely separate question (I would not presume to try to modify a vehicle that didn't belong to me): has anyone modified a Leaf to add more kWh to it? I could more strongly consider owning one if Nissan would offer a vehicle with 35+ kWh, so I got to wondering if there are any after-market places that are offering this modification.

jlsoaz said:

Hi everyone:

In truth, a Leaf is not my best option since I don't live close enough to a mid-sized town and my other destination points, but my questions:

- Is Lease takeover proving to be a viable option for folks who don't want to lock themselves into a long-term deal while waiting for other plug-in models to come out? Anything I should watch out for?

- Entirely separate question (I would not presume to try to modify a vehicle that didn't belong to me): has anyone modified a Leaf to add more kWh to it? I could more strongly consider owning one if Nissan would offer a vehicle with 35+ kWh, so I got to wondering if there are any after-market places that are offering this modification.

Click to expand...

Leasing is an attractive option, but transferring the lease is not a good option if the person taking it over is someone you don't know or trust- when you transfer the lease, it does not release you from your contractual obligations. In other words, the person taking over the lease can easily screw you over.

No aftermarket modifications to the battery that I'm aware of. I imagine eventually they will come out like they did with the Prius, but I doubt it will be cost effective.

To be honest, I wouldn't get your hopes up that a cheap long range electric car is just a few years away. The world economy is slowing (gradually collapsing) and that means less oil demand and lower oil prices. Electric cars are not the future like they were in early 2007. They will not prosper while gas is cheap. In fact, I think in a year or two, Nissan will have quite a mess to clean up when it comes out that their battery packs suck.

Get an electric car soon.

Coda is promising a 36kWh pack in a couple of months, at a reasonable price.

Herm said:

Coda is promising a 36kWh pack in a couple of months, at a reasonable price.

Click to expand...

problem is everything else with Coda is unreasonable

kubel said:

[...]
To be honest, I wouldn't get your hopes up that a cheap long range electric car is just a few years away. The world economy is slowing (gradually collapsing) and that means less oil demand and lower oil prices. Electric cars are not the future like they were in early 2007. They will not prosper while gas is cheap. In fact, I think in a year or two, Nissan will have quite a mess to clean up when it comes out that their battery packs suck.

Get an electric car soon.

Click to expand...

Hi Kubel:

Thanks for the reply. What do you mean as to the Leaf battery pack sucking? Do you mean just the size, or the quality in some way?

The battery pack has no active thermal management. There are a number of owners, mostly in Arizona, who are reporting rapid battery degradation because of the heat.

The next major issue will come when us northerners (who just got the LEAF this year) face our harsh winters. Again, because there's nothing to control the battery packs temperature (except a heater to prevent it from freezing completely on a few 2011's and all 2012's), range is drastically affected (though cold isn't as much of a battery killer as heat is).

Nissan's choice to not thermally control the battery pack is going to become a major issue.

Knowing this, I can't recommend the LEAF to anyone as a vehicle to purchase until they fix the battery pack. It makes a good lease though.

kubel said:

The battery pack has no active thermal management. There are a number of owners, mostly in Arizona, who are reporting rapid battery degradation because of the heat.

The next major issue will come when us northerners (who just got the LEAF this year) face our harsh winters. Again, because there's nothing to control the battery packs temperature (except a heater to prevent it from freezing completely on a few 2011's and all 2012's), range is drastically affected (though cold isn't as much of a battery killer as heat is).

Nissan's choice to not thermally control the battery pack is going to become a major issue.

Knowing this, I can't recommend the LEAF to anyone as a vehicle to purchase until they fix the battery pack. It makes a good lease though.

Click to expand...

When you charge the battery or draw energy from the battery, it creates heat which will allow the sealed pack to operate in cold climates. I think you are guessing this will be a problem, when it isn't yet and likely will not be.

Don't fix what isn't broken, and don't claim a problem that doesn't exist.

Yes there will be reduced range due to heater use and reduced capactiy issues (Whether from heat or cold) but if you only drive 30 or so miles a day, that won't matter for decades. I reccomend this car to anyone that fits the parameters, which is a whole lot of people. Buy one and you will too.

jlsoaz said:

Hi everyone:

In truth, a Leaf is not my best option since I don't live close enough to a mid-sized town and my other destination points, but my questions:

- Is Lease takeover proving to be a viable option for folks who don't want to lock themselves into a long-term deal while waiting for other plug-in models to come out? Anything I should watch out for?

- Entirely separate question (I would not presume to try to modify a vehicle that didn't belong to me): has anyone modified a Leaf to add more kWh to it? I could more strongly consider owning one if Nissan would offer a vehicle with 35+ kWh, so I got to wondering if there are any after-market places that are offering this modification.

Click to expand...

If you are in the market for a car, assess what you need and desire, and then seek a vehicle that meets those needs.

Electric driving is fun, clean, inexpensive, and worry free driving (Less parts to maintain and break). If those are your only concerns, the Leaf is a good choice, provided you don't need to go long distances in a hurry.

Altering an existing car is something that has been done many times in many ways, and there are a lot of cars that once had an internal combustion engine in them that are now converted to be an EV. Should you opt to build your own, you can set your own parameters and limitations. If you have enough money, you can build a Tesla like vehicle, with over 200 miles of range and all the bells and whistles.

Many of us hope Nissan will find a way to sell us a larger battery pack option, and when enough Leaf's are on the road more after market options will become available, like the GID meter and an improved range meter that Nissan is testing in Japan now (It wiil account for temperature, elevations and driving style to give a better range estimate).

As for leasing, I never lease, it is kind of like admitting you are not sure you want the car so you want an out clause. I was confident I wanted this car, and the thought of having to buy out a lease in another year and a half would not make me happy now that I have put 18.000 miles on it. After one year I was about a thousand miles over the 12,000 most leases are designed around. Sounds like you might drive it too much for that to work for you too.

kubel said:

Leasing is an attractive option, but transferring the lease is not a good option if the person taking it over is someone you don't know or trust- when you transfer the lease, it does not release you from your contractual obligations. In other words, the person taking over the lease can easily screw you over.

Click to expand...

Yep. I posted about the crappy NMAC lease terms at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=161834#p161834" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Caracalover said:

As for leasing, I never lease, it is kind of like admitting you are not sure you want the car so you want an out clause. I was confident I wanted this car, and the thought of having to buy out a lease in another year and a half would not make me happy now that I have put 18.000 miles on it. After one year I was about a thousand miles over the 12,000 most leases are designed around. Sounds like you might drive it too much for that to work for you too.

Click to expand...

The reason why I want to lease is because Nissan provides no battery capacity warranty. The other is because if my current income situation. I have plenty of savings but am not working now so I have don't have near enough tax liability to qualify for the full tax credit if I bought.

There are other reasons too such as I might need to end up moving or working somewhere where the Leaf's range won't work and the unknown resale value of Leafs. There are others. (Actually, the range issue mainly why I don't have a Leaf yet and I wouldn't want to limit my choice of workplace or where I live based on the range/need to charge.)

kubel said:

The battery pack has no active thermal management. There are a number of owners, mostly in Arizona, who are reporting rapid battery degradation because of the heat. ...

Click to expand...

Hi Kubel,

Thanks much for this information. Assuming your point bears out (such as I can probably confirm by searching on "Arizona" in this and other forums?) I guess that about does it - I will not be getting a Leaf. I am in Arizona. Starting around 2009-2010, I started pestering Nissan and colleagues as to Nissan's cooling choices, and trying to say to them that we needed to remember key issues such as battery fires (popped up with the Volt) and battery degradation (apparently popping up with the Leaf). Chevy seemed in some ways foolish to commit to such expensive state-of-charge bracketing and expensive active thermal management, at least partly in the name of preventing degradation, but maybe their approach will prove out.

I took a test-ride in Tucson around 2011 and asked them about their warranty and they were a bit hazy.

Anyway, for the sake of this popular car, I do hope you're wrong, but I fear that battery degradation could be an issue here.

^^^
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=211673#p211673" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is the current roster on who's lost a capacity bar or more... http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery,_Charging_System#Battery_Capacity_Behavior" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is a table of what the lost capacity bars correspond to.

At this point, I don't it's a good idea for anyone in AZ or TX to buy a Leaf. Leasing might be ok, if you can tolerate the capacity loss until you turn it in. Otherwise, it seems that better choices would be EVs or PHEVs w/a thermal management system (e.g. Volt, Ford Focus Electric, Tesla Roadster and Model S, etc.)

How so? Other than the very bland and dated styling, it is actually not a bad EV. Now that I have driven a production version a couple of times, I find it to be fairly decent...

DaveinOlyWA said:

Herm said:

Coda is promising a 36kWh pack in a couple of months, at a reasonable price.

Click to expand...

problem is everything else with Coda is unreasonable

Click to expand...

cwerdna said:

^^^
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=211673#p211673" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is the current roster on who's lost a capacity bar or more... http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery,_Charging_System#Battery_Capacity_Behavior" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is a table of what the lost capacity bars correspond to.

At this point, I don't it's a good idea for anyone in AZ or TX to buy a Leaf. Leasing might be ok, if you can tolerate the capacity loss until you turn it in. Otherwise, it seems that better choices would be EVs or PHEVs w/a thermal management system (e.g. Volt, Ford Focus Electric, Tesla Roadster and Model S, etc.)

Click to expand...

i fully understand your statement but wondering exactly what the parameters are for "taking the heat" because we are now getting reports from people in very moderate climates that are seeing loss now as well.

now remember, we are supposed to start seeing loss eventually but we have SEVERAL examples of people in my area with double, triple the miles who have not seen any.

for the first time EVER, i got 281 GID on my LEAF yesterday. have had 280 a few dozen times, but never 281. i have 18,400 miles, we have a guy in Kent who is probably around 50,000 miles by now who has seen no loss either. this shows a HUGE discrepancy in performance

look at Gary So Cal beaches. rarely hits 90. people in San Diego? been there, lived there, granted its "warmer" now, but it almost never hit 85 in SD so what are these people doing wrong?

or is it all batteries are not created equally? sure, the AZ issue is too common to pass off as something different

at the same time; i think that its a better thing to lease simply because i fully believe that if you are not looking for a high end vehicle that in 3 years we will have EVs using next gen batteries costing in the mid 20's and getting 100-120 REAL miles on a charge.

Leasing my Leaf - a last-minute decision based on my dealership's disclosure that I would receive the benefit of the federal tax incentives instantly, and also still receive California's CARB rebate by check - is turning out to have been a very happy choice.

I realize now that it's just not wise to commit to - purchase - first-generation technology, just as with consumer electronics. Few people would be happy today with the first-gen iPhone, iPod, iPad etc. Already we know that the 2013 Leaf with its improved charger will let us charge twice as fast with L2 EVSE as my 2011 Leaf, a dramatic improvement in my estimation.

So, I'm really glad to have the option to turn in my 2011 in a couple more years, and trade up to the latest model, or have the choice to choose an EV from another manufacturer if it suits my needs better. Whatever is available by then is certain to benefit from tech advances, early adopter feedback, etc.

Whatever minor financial disadvantage there is to leasing, to me at least, is more than compensated for by the freedom to rethink my choices in 2014, and not regret being married to a rapidly obsolescing vehicle. And, if I'm still as thrilled with my 2011 as I am now, I still have the option to buy out the lease if I like when it's term is over. But I don't see why I would at this point.

CODA quality levels got a very critical review recently, I think it was in NYT.

TomT said:

How so? Other than the very bland and dated styling, it is actually not a bad EV. Now that I have driven a production version a couple of times, I find it to be fairly decent...

DaveinOlyWA said:

Herm said:

Coda is promising a 36kWh pack in a couple of months, at a reasonable price.

Click to expand...

problem is everything else with Coda is unreasonable

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

timhebb said:

Leasing my Leaf - a last-minute decision based on my dealership's disclosure that I would receive the benefit of the federal tax incentives instantly....

Click to expand...

Hi - How does this work? I thought if I leased I would not get the benefit of the federal tax incentive?

jlsoaz said:

timhebb said:

Leasing my Leaf - a last-minute decision based on my dealership's disclosure that I would receive the benefit of the federal tax incentives instantly....

Click to expand...

Hi - How does this work? I thought if I leased I would not get the benefit of the federal tax incentive?

Click to expand...

From a high level (I don't remember the exact details), Nissan gets the $7500 incentive and it counts towards lowering your total lease payments. Hopefully someone else can chime in w/the details.

Cw is correct. The $7500 is treated as a down payment in addition to any monies you actually pay st time of delivery

TomT said:

How so? Other than the very bland and dated styling, it is actually not a bad EV. Now that I have driven a production version a couple of times, I find it to be fairly decent...

Click to expand...

Do you think Coda will be alive as a company in 6 months ?

Most of the feedback I have seen on the Coda has been lackluster to say the least. Poor interior, loud motor, etc.

battery that is larger but does not really provide the additional range. It appears to offer very little to distinguish itself and for the price, that is a mistake