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drees
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:49 pm

GRA wrote:The above implies that they are putting in single units at each location, which we know is pretty much doomed to failure, as no one will trust them to be available when needed.

I checked about half of the locations in the list, they all appear to have two dual-plug CHAdeMO/CCS stations along with a L2 station. A typical EVgo install these days. What's interesting is that a lot of these don't appear to be new, they've been there a while.

For example, Bowie's been there since 2014. They may have recently swapped out the Nissan CHAdeMO for a dual-plug unit, though. I hope they aren't calling that an "installation".
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IssacZachary
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:00 am

SageBrush wrote:The sooner diesel dies, the better.

Yes. But there needs to be a good alternative to diesel propulsion for it to die. Otherwise you might as well as say, "The sooner people stop owning and driving motorized vehicles the better."

Commercial vehicle fleets buy diesels, not because they think it's cool or that they like to destroy the environment, but because right now it's the best option they've got. As a former bus/truck driver, and having driven both diesel and gasoline buses, the diesels many times get as much as twice the fuel mileage as the gasoline rigs do. Not to mention that they require less maintenance and last many more miles. And those are very important atributes when you're thinking in terms of millions of miles.

The reason I still own my diesel car is that it just won't die. I've got over 500,000 miles on it, and I can still get up to 60mpg (USA) if I'm easy on the throttle. And all I've done to the engine since I've owned it is change the oil and oil, air and fuel filters and only one broken injection line, and that's it. Financially I can't swallow another debt right now. Even used Prii are still expensive. Basically I'd have to find someone who'd trade their Prius straight across for my Leaf, unless I bought >>THIS PRIUS<<, which I would still have to take a loan out. Of course then my fossil fuel free driving would go from 95% to 0% because I'd no longer own an EV.
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Other vehicles: 1972 VW Super Beetle 1600cc dual port engine. 1985 VW Golf non-turbo 1.6L diesel.

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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:39 am

IssacZachary wrote:
SageBrush wrote:The sooner diesel dies, the better.

Yes. But there needs to be a good alternative to diesel propulsion for it to die. Otherwise you might as well as say, "The sooner people stop owning and driving motorized vehicles the better."

Commercial vehicle fleets buy diesels, not because they think it's cool or that they like to destroy the environment, but because right now it's the best option they've got.

"Best" because they do not pay for the pollution; "Best" because the petroleum industry is subsidized. "Best" because they do not realize how many of their tax dollars are being spent on militarization to insure the global oil supply. "Best" because they do not consider the cost of fossil fuels to the US economy.
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:11 pm

Diesel engines using compressed natural gas are much cleaner than those burning oil. There is definitely a problem with the current source of much of the natural gas in the US (fracking) but that isn't an inherent problem. Those engines can also burn bio-gas.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

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IssacZachary
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:24 pm

SageBrush wrote:
IssacZachary wrote:
SageBrush wrote:The sooner diesel dies, the better.

Yes. But there needs to be a good alternative to diesel propulsion for it to die. Otherwise you might as well as say, "The sooner people stop owning and driving motorized vehicles the better."

Commercial vehicle fleets buy diesels, not because they think it's cool or that they like to destroy the environment, but because right now it's the best option they've got.

"Best" because they do not pay for the pollution; "Best" because the petroleum industry is subsidized. "Best" because they do not realize how many of their tax dollars are being spent on militarization to insure the global oil supply. "Best" because they do not consider the cost of fossil fuels to the US economy.

Then you need to start a political campaign to get everyone who creates pollution to pay for it, to get petroleum subsidies taken away, to stop militarization that's used for securing oil supply and to tax the hell out of petroleum and use that money to help the US economy. And the rest of us who can't afford a BMW i3 will all have to go back to walking (which would help solve the US's obesity/diabetes epidemia.)

LeftieBiker wrote:Diesel engines using compressed natural gas are much cleaner than those burning oil. There is definitely a problem with the current source of much of the natural gas in the US (fracking) but that isn't an inherent problem. Those engines can also burn bio-gas.

I've thought of doing such a conversion to my diesel. Either that or propane.
Last edited by IssacZachary on Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 SL 45,000 miles.
12 bars until 44,300 miles on June 2, 2017. :D
11 bars current. :)
Other vehicles: 1972 VW Super Beetle 1600cc dual port engine. 1985 VW Golf non-turbo 1.6L diesel.

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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:31 pm

drees wrote:
GRA wrote:The above implies that they are putting in single units at each location, which we know is pretty much doomed to failure, as no one will trust them to be available when needed.

I checked about half of the locations in the list, they all appear to have two dual-plug CHAdeMO/CCS stations along with a L2 station. A typical EVgo install these days. What's interesting is that a lot of these don't appear to be new, they've been there a while.

For example, Bowie's been there since 2014. They may have recently swapped out the Nissan CHAdeMO for a dual-plug unit, though. I hope they aren't calling that an "installation".

Thanks, glad to hear they aren't ignoring the lessons of the past 6+ years.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:19 pm

Via GCC:
Daimler launches diesel plan; expands recall to >3M units, accelerating next-gen diesel launch
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/07/20170718-daimlerdiesel.html

The Daimler Board of Management has approved a comprehensive plan for diesel engines consisting of a substantial expansion of the current service action for vehicles in customers’ hands as well as a rapid market launch of the completely new OM 654 diesel engine family (earlier post).

Since March, Mercedes-Benz has offered its customers of compact-class cars an improvement in NOx emissions for one engine version. Approximately 45% of those cars have since been updated. A voluntary service action is also being carried out for V-Class customers—so far with approximately 75% of the vehicles in Germany. To improve the emissions of additional model series, Daimler has now decided to extend the service action to include more than three million Mercedes-Benz vehicles. . . .

The measures to be taken for nearly all EU5 and EU6 vehicles in Europe will be carried out in close cooperation with the German regulatory authorities. The company is investing about €220 million (US$254 million). The service actions involve no costs for the customers. The implementation of the measures will be starting in the next weeks. Due to the large number of vehicles this will continue over a longer period of time. . . .

New engine family. Mercedes-Benz has already proven that diesel engines can meet the stricter EU emission regulations to come in the future with a completely new engine family. With an investment of approximately €3 billion (US$3.5 billion), the company has developed a new generation of engines the exemplary emissions of which have been confirmed by measurements carried out by independent institutes.

Following the market launch of the new four-cylinder OM 654 engine in the new E-Class in 2016, the launch of the modular engine family will now be implemented rapidly across the entire model portfolio.

The new OM 654 for the E-Class delivers around 13% lower fuel consumption and CO2 emissions along with a further increase in output (143 kW instead of 125 kW) compared to its predecessor, the OM 651.

The new diesel engine is designed to meet future emissions legislation (RDE – Real Driving Emissions). In contrast to the current NEDC measurement cycle, the WLTP (Worldwide harmonized Light vehicles Test Procedure) cycle is aimed at ensuring that the figures for standard and real-world consumption are close together in future. . . .


Article on same subject from ABG: http://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/18/daimler-recalls-3-million-mercedes-diesel-cars-for-255-million-upgrade/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:58 pm

Via GCC:
California to receive additional $153M in final settlement with Volkswagen
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/07 ... 0-arb.html

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) filed a consent decree for its final settlement with the Volkswagen Group of America (VW). The company will be required to pay an additional $153.8 million to California over the company’s use of illegal defeat devices in 2009-2016, 2.0 and 3.0 liter diesel passenger cars. Before today, VW had paid $533 million to California, of which $422 million will flow to the state through a mitigation trust. Volkswagen also is making $800 million in ZEV-related investments in the state.
The $153.8 million dollars represents penalties for air quality violations and the costs of CARB’s investigation. . . .

This Consent Decree is in addition to:

    More than $422 million dollars VW must pay into a national trust to mitigate environmental harm in California;

    $800 million dollars in Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) related investments that VW must perform in California pursuant to an investment plan approved by CARB;

    $25 million dollars VW has paid to CARB to support ZEV investment programs, including vehicle replacement programs, for low-income residents;

    Consumer relief, including restitution and modification or buy back of the affected vehicles;

    $86 million dollars it has paid to the California Attorney General’s office for civil penalties and costs; and

    Any additional mitigation payments VW is required to make if it fails to modify or buy back at least 85% of the subject vehicles in California. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:04 pm

Via GCR:
EU investigating diesel collusion among Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, VW: report
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/111 ... -vw-report

. . . Today, we got what could prove to be a bombshell: a report that the European Union is investigating all three German makers for colluding to manipulate software and set standards for diesel emissions.

First reported by Der Spiegel in Germany, it was summarized in English by the British outlet Autocar. The details are said to have emerged from investigations into the actions of VW Group engineers, which German authorities have been probing since the 2015 revelations. . . .

If true, the summary provided by Autocar is damning:

Acting on evidence provided by a former Volkswagen employee, the EU has opened the cartel investigation following claims that up to 200 employees from Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche and Volkswagen were involved in the secret, closed-door meetings. During these encounters, the German car makers are said to have swapped vital information on methods to circumnavigate test procedures for CO2 and particulate emissions as well as SCR (selective catalytic reduction) thermo switching, among other manipulations.

The talks are said to have begun as early as the 1990s, with one specific meeting have taken place on the sidelines of the Paris auto show in 2010. Among the items on which the makers collaborated were the size of tanks for diesel emission fluid (urea solution), with the German makers reportedly agreeing to keep their tanks under a certain volume to aid in packing the cars. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:50 pm

Interesting stuff, but VW has other problems.
The software fix being applied in Europe appears to affect reliability of the smog control systems. No great surprise there, since that was a big part of the motivation to cheat in the first place. Where VW goes, other diesel companies are sure to follow.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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