Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Via GCC:
11 more multinationals join Hydrogen Council
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180313-hc.html

Eleven international oil & gas, energy, science & technology and automotive companies from Asia, North America and Europe have joined the Hydrogen Council. The newcomers almost double Council membership one year on from its launch.

Launched at the World Economic Forum in Davos in early 2017, the Hydrogen Council (earlier post) is a global CEO initiative to foster the role of hydrogen technologies in the global energy transition. The 13 founding members are Air Liquide, Alstom, Anglo American, BMW GROUP, Daimler, ENGIE, Honda, Hyundai, Kawasaki, Royal Dutch Shell, The Linde Group, Total and Toyota.

3M, Bosch, China Energy, Great Wall Motor, JXTG Nippon Oil & Energy Corporation and Weichai, join as steering members alongside Hexagon Composites, Marubeni, McPhy, Nel Hydrogen and Royal Vopak at supporting level. . . .
 
Via GCC:
Toyoda Gosei establishes new plant in Japan to produce high pressure hydrogen tanks for FCVs
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180315-toyodagosei.html

Toyoda Gosei Co., Ltd. has established a new plant in the city of Inabe, Mie Prefecture, Japan to produce high pressure hydrogen tanks, a crucial component of fuel cell vehicles (FCVs). Preparations for the start of production are currently underway.

Production capacity at the new plant for these tanks will be built up gradually to meet growth in demand with the expected increase in number of FCV models as these vehicles come into wider use. . . .
 
I would have never dreamed that oil companies, large hydrogen promoting auto manufacturers and hydrogen producers would form a club to protect their future profits.

That is just so “out of left field”. Did not see that coming.

Welp, that solves all the hydrogen problems. I guess it’s inevitable; the George Bush hydrogen economy is here.

I’m going to get a phone call into Tesla to give them the bad news. ****, I really thought they had something, but now I see the future. It’s obviously hydrogen.

GRA said:
Via GCC:
11 more multinationals join Hydrogen Council
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180313-hc.html

Eleven international oil & gas, energy, science & technology and automotive companies from Asia, North America and Europe have joined the Hydrogen Council. The newcomers almost double Council membership one year on from its launch.

Launched at the World Economic Forum in Davos in early 2017, the Hydrogen Council (earlier post) is a global CEO initiative to foster the role of hydrogen technologies in the global energy transition. The 13 founding members are Air Liquide, Alstom, Anglo American, BMW GROUP, Daimler, ENGIE, Honda, Hyundai, Kawasaki, Royal Dutch Shell, The Linde Group, Total and Toyota.

3M, Bosch, China Energy, Great Wall Motor, JXTG Nippon Oil & Energy Corporation and Weichai, join as steering members alongside Hexagon Composites, Marubeni, McPhy, Nel Hydrogen and Royal Vopak at supporting level. . . .
 
Via GCC:
Toyota accelerates use of hydrogen at its plants in Japan
http://www.greencarcongress.com/201...s-use-of-hydrogen-at-its-plants-in-japan.html

Toyota Motor Corporation has deployed 20 fuel cell forklifts, manufactured by Toyota Industries Corporation, at its Motomachi Plant located in Toyota City, Aichi Prefecture. It has also built a hydrogen station for designated use by fuel cell forklifts at the plant.

In addition to Toyota’s first two fuel cell forklifts, which were introduced at the Motomachi Plant on January 31, 2017, this brings the number of fuel cell forklifts at the Motomachi Plant up to 22. . . .

In addition to these efforts, it is also utilizing renewable energy and hydrogen in its plants, and this deployment of fuel cell forklifts is part of these efforts. In order to achieve the Plant Zero CO2 Emissions Challenge, Toyota intends to continue to replace existing conventional forklifts with fuel cell forklifts, deploying a total of 170 to 180 fuel cell forklifts to the Motomachi Plant by around 2020. Furthermore, the deployment and use of fuel cell forklifts will also be promoted at other plants. . . .

Fuel cell forklifts utilize hydrogen to generate electricity, and demonstrate excellent environmental performance as they do not emit CO2 or substances of concern (SOCs) during operation. They are also very convenient given that they can be refueled in approximately three minutes. Furthermore, with their ability to supply electricity, fuel cell forklifts can serve as a source of power supply during emergencies.

Also GCC:
DOE to award up to $32.5M to advance solid oxide fuel cell technologies
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180316-sofc.html

. . . The selected projects will fall under the Office of Fossil Energy’s two funding opportunity announcements (FOAs): Preliminary Design and Techno-Economic Analysis of MWe-Class Solid Oxide Fuel Cell Systems and Solid Oxide Fuel Cells Core Technology Research.

SOFC R&D will enable efficient, cost-effective electricity generation from abundant domestic coal and natural gas resources, with minimal use of water and near-zero atmospheric emissions of carbon dioxide and pollutants. . . .

FOA Preliminary Design and Techno-Economic Analysis (TEA) of Megawatt-Electric (MWe)-Class SOFC Systems will provide an estimated $23 million in federal funding for cost-shared research to develop a preliminary design and TEA of a MWe-class SOFC power system for distributed generation applications. These projects will have two phases with a competitive down-select between Phase I and Phase II. The Phase II project will culminate in the construction and testing of a MWe-class SOFC system that meets the cost target of $6,000/kilowatt-electric and degradation target of 0.5 percent/1,000 hours. These systems will be field tested for a minimum of 5,000 hours.

FOA Solid Oxide Fuel Cells Core Technology Research will provide an estimated $9.5 million for cost-shared R&D in two areas of interest:

  • SOFC Core Technology Research. DOE seeks applied laboratory or bench-scale R&D projects to advance cell technology stack components, novel cell and stack architectures, and/or balance-of-plant technologies that will improve the performance, cost, reliability, and endurance of cells, stacks, and/or systems. Successful projects will result in validation of concepts at laboratory or bench scale.

    Core Technology R&D in Support of Near-Term SOFC Power Systems Prototype Tests. DOE seeks to address and resolve reliability issues related to the long-term operation of prototype tests for second-generation SOFC power systems in an operational environment. Applications can focus on any SOFC cell, stack, balance-of-plant component, or subsystem and should directly contribute to lowering the system degradation to less than 0.5 percent/1,000 hours. Successful projects will result in validation of concepts in an operational system by a SOFC manufacturer team member.
 
Via GCC:
Air Products to provide hydrogen fueling equipment to China Energy Investment Group’s first hydrogen fueling station in China
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180320-ap.html

Air Products signed an agreement with . . . a subsidiary of China’s energy conglomerate China Energy Investment Group Co., Ltd. (China Energy), to provide two hydrogen dispensers to China Energy’s first commercial hydrogen fueling station project in Rugao City of Jiangsu Province, eastern China.

Air Products’ SmartFuel hydrogen dispenser will be supplied for the project for fueling the hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles. The fueling station is expected to be one of the largest in China in terms of fueling capacity when it becomes operational in mid-2018. . . .

As part of its efforts to support China’s hydrogen energy industry, Air Products also announced it has joined the National Alliance of Hydrogen and Fuel Cell (NAHFC) organization, which was co-initiated by China Energy and officially established in Beijing in February.

The alliance is a government-backed national platform to develop the hydrogen and fuel cell industry by consolidating resources and innovative technologies from key industry players and institutes. It also serves as a think-tank to form the national hydrogen energy strategy and development roadmap. . . .

Several sites for certain hydrogen fueling applications are currently fueling at rates of more than 75,000 refills per year. Use of the company’s fueling technology is increasing and accounts for more than 1,500,000 hydrogen fills per year. Cars, trucks, vans, buses, scooters, forklifts, locomotives, planes, cell towers, material handling equipment, and even submarines have been fueled using Air Products’ technologies.
 
Via GCC:
UK government awards £8.8M to boost hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and refueling infrastructure
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180327-uk.html

Police cars and taxis in the UK will be among nearly 200 new hydrogen powered vehicles supported by a new £8.8-million (US$12.2-million) award from the Department for Transport to improve access to hydrogen refueling stations nationwide and to increase the number of hydrogen cars on the roads from this summer.

The funded project is run by a consortium managed by Element Energy and includes expertise from ITM Power, Shell, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai. . . .

The £8.8-million grant will be matched by a further £13.1 million (US$18.2 million) investment including support from the companies and other sources. The project will involve the procurement of new vehicles, construction of new stations and upgrades to existing stations.
 
Via GCC:
SimpleFuel exports innovative small-scale hydrogen refueling appliance to Japan
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180329-simplefuel.html

SimpleFuel, winner of the US Department of Energy (DOE) $1-million H2 Refuel H-Prize, is exporting one of its first hydrogen refueling appliances to Japan.

The initial SimpleFuel product line is designed to target several small-scale hydrogen dispensing markets, including home and local/distributed refueling of consumer FCEVs, refueling for fuel cell vehicle fleets, and industrial fuel cell vehicle refueling.

SimpleFuel is an on-site hydrogen generation and dispensing appliance that uses water and electricity to produce high purity fuel cell-grade hydrogen via electrolysis. SimpleFuel can dispense fast “opportunity” fills or full fills to 700 bar automotive pressures. . . .

With support from the Japanese Environmental Ministry of the Central Government, the SimpleFuel appliance will run on solar or grid electricity for use with a Toyota Industries fuel-cell forklift truck at the Kesen Precut Cooperative. Kesen Precut manufactures high quality wood and wood chip products for the Japanese market. . . .
I posted a couple of previous articles about SimpleFuel's H2 refueling products upthread, but here's their product page: https://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/htac_may17_13_obrien.pdf

No prices for the unit going to Japan are mentioned, but the product page says that the home unit prototype which won the DoE prize had an installed cost of <$35k/kg., and a direct user cost of <$15/kg. Both would need to be radically reduced for home use, obviously. I have no idea how much could be done through development and how much through economies of scale. The unit for the Kesen forklift is presumably the 350 bar version.
 
Via GCC:
ITM Power to study large-scale production of renewable hydrogen in British Columbia; export to Japan and California
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180330-itmpower.html

The British Columbia Government Ministries of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources and Jobs, Trade and Technology has awarded ITM Power a grant to undertake a Power-to-Gas (P2G) feasibility study. In the initial phase of the project, ITM Power will undertake a techno-economic feasibility study for the large-scale centralized production of renewable hydrogen in the province of British Columbia (BC).

Although the initial contract value of the feasibility study is relatively small, the project has the potential to be one of the largest of its kind globally, with total hydrogen electrolysis capacity of up to 300MW under consideration, to be used to supply both domestic and international export demand. . . .

The project is due to commence in Q2 2018 and has a duration of 12 months.

There is a growing demand for hydrogen in parts of the world that are leading the transition away from conventional energy sources to renewable, clean energy for both motive and stationary power applications. British Columbia’s grid is one of the cleanest in the world in terms of carbon emissions, with 92% of the power generated by hydro, and has competitive electricity rates. This positions BC as a strong candidate for production of renewable hydrogen generated via electrolysis. . . .

Also GCC:
Toyota Mobility Foundation awards 10 grants for hydrogen research initiative
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180330-tmf.html

. . . The Hydrogen Research Initiative started in July 2017 to support innovative research to reduce the output of carbon dioxide and/or the cost of hydrogen and hydrogen systems. Research proposals are to yield practical results in these areas between the years 2025 and 2030. This fiscal year, TMF solicited applications in four fields:

Hydrogen generation
Hydrogen storage and transport
Hydrogen applications
Energy systems

Toyota received 32 applications; a screening panel of hydrogen energy experts from universities and public research organizations determined the final grant awardees.


  • Hydrogen generation:

    Dynamic Simulation of Hydrogen Production System Using Estimated Renewable Electricity Profiles and a Water Electrolyzer Model

    Investigation of catalyst / electrolyte interface structure during photoelectrochemical water splitting

    Innovative surface reforming technology development for functionalization of stainless steels as water electrolysis catalysts

    Development of air electrodes for proton-conducting solid oxide electrochemical cells

    Development of oxide-based electrocatalyst of water electrolysis for production of CO2-free-hydrogen


    Hydrogen storage and transport:

    Computational Design for Higher-Order Porous Structures Suitable for Efficient Hydrogen Storage under Room Temperature-Molecular Dynamics Approach

    Development of organic hydride electrolyzer for hydrogen energy carrier synthesis


    Hydrogen applications:

    Examination of alternative measure for safety distance in high pressure hydrogen storage facility using porous wall


    Energy systems:

    Design of sustainable hydrogen supply system based on the spatial analysis

    Study for realization of hybrid energy system composed of electric and hydrogen energy using renewable energy and FCV
I've removed the researcher's name and organization from the above list, but they are in the original if anyone's interested.
 
Via GCC:
H2FUTURE building world’s largest green hydrogen pilot plant; targeting the steel industry
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/04/20180416-h2future.html

The European H2FUTURE project consortium, comprising voestalpine, Siemens, VERBUND, and Austrian Power Grid, together with the research partners K1-MET and ECN, officially gave the green light to the construction of a 6 MW “green” hydrogen pilot production plant—the world’s largest—at a voestalpine Linz steel plant. (Earlier post.)

The partners from industry and power generation will use this facility to research into future breakthrough technologies which are needed to meet global climate goals over the long-term. The plant is scheduled to be fully operational by spring 2019.

More than 600 billion cubic meters of hydrogen are used annually worldwide, more than 95% of which is produced via a CO2-intensive process. Global demand for hydrogen is projected to increase tenfold by 2050, to around 6 trillion cubic meters.

The EU-funded €18-million (US$22.3-million) project will be used to test the potential applications for green hydrogen—e.g., CO2-free hydrogen produced via electrolysis using renewable electricity—in the various process stages of steel production, and integration into the power reserve markets for the power grid. . . .

The core electrolysis components will be delivered during the summer, with the plant going live within a year. The start of the comprehensive two-year test program is planned for spring 2019. . . .

The vision of the technology and capital goods group is to move away from coal and coke via bridging technologies based on natural gas, as is already the case at the direct reduction plant in Texas, and finally on to the greatest possible use of green hydrogen.

Siemens has developed what is currently the world’s largest PEM (proton exchange membrane) electrolyzer module for the research facility in Linz. With a capacity of 6 megawatts, the plant will be able to produce 1,200 cubic meters (108 kg) of green hydrogen an hour. The goal is to achieve a record output efficiency of 80% in converting electricity into hydrogen.

With its 128 hydropower plants, VERBUND, Austria’s largest electricity company and a leading European hydropower electricity producer, generates almost 100% of its electricity from renewable sources. . . .

Around €12 million (US$15 million) of the funding is from the European Commission, specifically from the Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking (FCH JU).
 
Via GCC:
Anglo American Platinum, Shell invest in HyET for electrochemical hydrogen compression
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/04/20180418-amplats.html

Anglo American Platinum (Amplats), alongside Shell Technology Ventures (STV), has taken a stake in High-Yield Energy Technologies (HyET) (earlier post), a Dutch company that has developed cost-effective electrochemical hydrogen compression (EHC) technology. HyET’s technology is a reliable substitute for mechanical hydrogen compression both in existing industrial applications and in hydrogen refueling stations (HRS).

HyET’s latest compressor, the HCS-100, compresses hydrogen by forcing the gas through a platinum-based membrane to reach pressures of up to 1,000 bar (100 MPa) while ensuring its simultaneous purification. With no moving parts, the HCS-100 operates at a fraction of the cost of, and is more reliable than, current mechanical compressors. . . .

In 2017, the HyET team reported the development of new, fully aromatic hydrocarbon membrane enabling even more efficient compression trough higher throughput and minimied parasitic losses (back diffusion), thus reducing the operation cost significantly for hydrogen compression. Besides its use in the electrochemical compressor, the newly developed membrane may also have merit in other electrochemical applications, such as electrolyzers and fuel cells, the developers noted.

Highly compressed hydrogen can store a large amount of energy, much more than conventional batteries. As a comparison: a car drives approximately 100 km on 1kg of compressed hydrogen, whilst it drives a mere 1km on the energy stored in 1kg of batteries. The ability to cost-effectively and reliably compress hydrogen will play an important part in accelerating the adoption of FCEVs and other vehicles such as fuel cell powered trucks and buses. . . .
Assuming the claims are accurate (always questionable when a company's touting a product) and they can commercialize this, it would be one of the step changes needed to reduce H2 costs to gas/diesel competitive levels. Still needed is a step reduction in H2 production costs, but this would substantially reduce the operating costs of H2 stations. The question is what are the relative capital costs between standard compressors and this equipment?
 
GRA said:
Via GCC:
Anglo American Platinum, Shell invest in HyET for electrochemical hydrogen compression
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/04/20180418-amplats.html
Highly compressed hydrogen can store a large amount of energy, much more than conventional batteries. As a comparison: a car drives approximately 100 km on 1kg of compressed hydrogen, whilst it drives a mere 1km on the energy stored in 1kg of batteries.
A commenter in the GCC article addressed this bit of propaganda rather nicely:
Commenter gryf at GCC said:
Stating: you get "100km on 1kg of compressed hydrogen, whilst it drives a mere 1km on the energy stored in 1kg of batteries" is an incorrect System perspective.
The 1 km on 1 kg of batteries is true if the battery system has an energy density of 160 Watt-Hrs/kg (about right for 2018 EV battery technology today).
For a Fuel Cell EV (FCEV), you must add the weight of the Hydrogen Tank, the Fuel Cell, and the battery to equal a Battery EV.
The Toyota Mirai FCEV has an 88 kg Hydrogen TanK (5.7% storage density), a 57 kg Fuel Cell, and a 29 kg NiMH battery which equals 174 kg for 5 kg of Hydrogen. It has 502 km of range, or 502 km / 174 kg which equals 2.88 km per kg.
When a BEV has an energy density of 460 Watt-Hrs/kg there will be no difference.
GRA said:
Assuming the claims are accurate (always questionable when a company's touting a product) and they can commercialize this, it would be one of the step changes needed to reduce H2 costs to gas/diesel competitive levels. Still needed is a step reduction in H2 production costs, but this would substantially reduce the operating costs of H2 stations. The question is what are the relative capital costs between standard compressors and this equipment?
Note that this work is being promoted by a platinum company. In this case, it sounds as if platinum is being used as a catalyst in order to improved the reliability of the compressors, thereby potentially reducing the lifecycle costs of that step.

At the compressor company's website, they tout the following tagline: "EHG: accelerating the battery-hydrogen transition". I wonder where that transition is taking place. I am aware that there is movement in the forklift industry, but I'm not aware of other areas where such a transition is happening.

They also claim to reduce capex by up to a factor of 4X and opex up to a factor of 2X, so that is significant. They also claim to improve efficiency by about 40%. They also claim to improve availability to 99+% from about 70% and MTBF is increase to over 20,000 hours versus ??. With specifications like that, they should be able to replace incumbent technologies. Indeed. The company claims that "EHC can outcompete any mechanical compressor in any application.

But note that driving up the platinum content in the H2 FCV chain will inevitably drive up the unit costs of platinum if any attempt is made to ramp up production of these things. That will tend to work against any cost savings that adding the platinum provided in the first place. In other words, this approach may have merit in the H2 production world outside of any application which would require large quantities of the equipment in question, such as the one which is the topic of this thread.

Finally, note that the compression losses of 4 kWh/kg of this new device could instead be used to propel a BEV almost a third of the distance that the compressed H2 can propel the same car. In other words, it represents a loss of about 30%. This compares to a Li-ion battery which only loses about 2% of the energy it stores in the round-trip storage process. And this is one of the smallest losses in the entire H2 FCV energy chain. Overall, this H2 FCV chain throws away about 2/3 of the starting energy. That lost energy means that about for each H2 FCV that is fielded, three BEVs could have been put into service and fueled. (And that completely ignores the massive additional costs of the vehicle and the refueling infrastructure needed for H2 FCVs.)
 
<Snip>

RegGuheert said:
GRA said:
Assuming the claims are accurate (always questionable when a company's touting a product) and they can commercialize this, it would be one of the step changes needed to reduce H2 costs to gas/diesel competitive levels. Still needed is a step reduction in H2 production costs, but this would substantially reduce the operating costs of H2 stations. The question is what are the relative capital costs between standard compressors and this equipment?
Note that this work is being promoted by a platinum company. In this case, it sounds as if platinum is being used as a catalyst in order to improved the reliability of the compressors, thereby potentially reducing the lifecycle costs of that step.

At the compressor company's website, they tout the following tagline: "EHG: accelerating the battery-hydrogen transition". I wonder where that transition is taking place. I am aware that there is movement in the forklift industry, but I'm not aware of other areas where such a transition is happening.

They also claim to reduce capex by up to a factor of 4X and opex up to a factor of 2X, so that is significant. They also claim to improve efficiency by about 40%. They also claim to improve availability to 99+% from about 70% and MTBF is increase to over 20,000 hours versus ??. With specifications like that, they should be able to replace incumbent technologies. Indeed. The company claims that "EHC can outcompete any mechanical compressor in any application.

But note that driving up the platinum content in the H2 FCV chain will inevitably drive up the unit costs of platinum if any attempt is made to ramp up production of these things. That will tend to work against any cost savings that adding the platinum provided in the first place. In other words, this approach may have merit in the H2 production world outside of any application which would require large quantities of the equipment in question, such as the one which is the topic of this thread.
I suspect that it probably uses a lot less Pt at a central location, rather than spreading it out in large numbers of individual fuel cell stacks. The latter have all been reducing (or replacing) Pt, so we'd have to see what the net effect might be.

<snip rest>
 
See earlier post: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14744&p=512551&hilit=toyota+long+beach#p512551

Via GCC:
Shell and Toyota moving forward with hydrogen facility for freight at Port of Long Beach with $8M award from CEC
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/04/20180420-tmcshell.html

. . . The funding, which is contingent upon the approval of the project at an upcoming CEC meeting, forms part of the CEC’s Alternative and Renewable Fuel and Vehicle Technology Program, which helps develop hydrogen and electric infrastructure at ports, warehousing and distribution centers in California. Shell and Toyota expect the facility to encourage the use of zero-emission hydrogen fuel cell electric trucks in and around Long Beach, one of the world’s largest freight hubs.

If approved, Shell will build, own and operate a hydrogen station at the Toyota Logistics Services location at the Port of Long Beach, fueling Toyota’s Project Portal heavy-duty fuel cell proof-of-concept truck and public fleets. (Earlier post.) Shell will source its hydrogen from Toyota’s adjacent Tri-Gen facility (earlier post), which produces hydrogen from 100% renewable biogas.
 
GRA said:
Via GCC:
AHEAD to begin supply of hydrogen from Brunei to Japan in January 2020
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/04/20180423-ahead.html

SQL errors, or I'd post some of it. SMR, mix with toluene and turn into MCH and liquify at -253 in Brunei, then ship to Japan and remove H2.
If anyone is still under the illusion that H2 is a renewable resource, this should help to shatter that belief.
Greeen Car Congress said:
The hydrogen in Brunei will be produced by steam reforming.
Lest there be any confusion, what is meant is that they are steam reforming petroleum. I suppose this will be sold to the Japanese people as a demonstration of how their government is moving to a new, clean energy future. In reality, what they are moving is Japanese emissions to Brunei.

I suppose Brunei will (or perhaps already does) experience a much higher rate of cancer than most of the world, just as Singapore does. While it cannot be proven, many in Singapore suspect that their very high rate of cancer is the direct consequence of their massive refinery which is just off the southern shore of the island nation. Oil has long been a major source of the prosperity of Singapore (though they have developed many other businesses to fuel their economy). In short, oil has been a blessing to Singapore, but it has come at a high cost to many who live there.

Let's all give up this nonsensical concept of H2 being a "zero emissions" fuel. In reality, the creation and use of H2 and the devices associated with it results in more emissions than virtually every other fuel on the planet. And I use the term "fuel" very loosely, since hydrogen is nothing more than a very inefficient energy carrier.

MSDS for methylcyclohexane:
Potential Acute Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of eye contact (irritant).
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of eye contact (irritant).
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. The substance is toxic to lungs, the nervous system. Repeated or prolonged
exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.
MSDS for toluene:
Potential Acute Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of
skin contact (permeator).
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: A4 (Not classifiable for human or animal.) by ACGIH, 3 (Not classifiable for human.) by IARC.
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not
available. The substance may be toxic to blood, kidneys, the nervous system, liver, brain, central nervous system (CNS).
Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.
 
RegGuheert said:
GRA said:
Via GCC:
AHEAD to begin supply of hydrogen from Brunei to Japan in January 2020
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/04/20180423-ahead.html

SQL errors, or I'd post some of it. SMR, mix with toluene and turn into MCH and liquify at -253 in Brunei, then ship to Japan and remove H2.
If anyone is still under the illusion that H2 is a renewable resource, this should help to shatter that belief.
Greeen Car Congress said:
The hydrogen in Brunei will be produced by steam reforming.
Lest there be any confusion, what is meant is that they are steam reforming petroleum. I suppose this will be sold to the Japanese people as a demonstration of how their government is moving to a new, clean energy future. In reality, what they are moving is Japanese emissions to Brunei.

I suppose Brunei will (or perhaps already does) experience a much higher rate of cancer than most of the world, just as Singapore does. While it cannot be proven, many in Singapore suspect that their very high rate of cancer is the direct consequence of their massive refinery which is just off the southern shore of the island nation. Oil has long been a major source of the prosperity of Singapore (though they have developed many other businesses to fuel their economy). In short, oil has been a blessing to Singapore, but it has come at a high cost to many who live there.

Let's all give up this nonsensical concept of H2 being a "zero emissions" fuel. In reality, the creation and use of H2 and the devices associated with it results in more emissions than virtually every other fuel on the planet. And I use the term "fuel" very loosely, since hydrogen is nothing more than a very inefficient energy carrier.
Uh, Reg, sorry to interrupt your rant, but absolutely no one is claiming that SMR-produced H2 is a zero emission fuel. Only H2 produced from renewables can be (ignoring the emissions involved in producing the equipment required to convert those renewables into a useful form, just as we usually do for renewably-produced electricity equipment like wind turbines and PV modules), or some fossil-fuel tech that can utilize CCS if that ever works. I happen to think this is a bad idea and Japan should be concentrating more on renewably-sourced H2 even though it will slow any transition, but that's their call. This appears to be the roadmap they've laid out for themselves:
Basic Hydrogen Strategy (key points)
http://www.meti.go.jp/english/press/2017/pdf/1226_003a.pdf

Carry on.
 
GRA said:
Uh, Reg, sorry to interrupt your rant, but absolutely no one is claiming that SMR-produced H2 is a zero emission fuel.
No, what you and many others do is talk about "zero-emission vehicles" and pretend that this is a virtue in itself.

That is a massive lie of omission. What I pointed out that you completely glossed over is that fossil fuels are used as the source and toxic petroleum products will be put into ships and sailed on the ocean where those chemicals can pollute the most water possible.

I'm sorry, but this new technology is NOT progress. This is a way for the petroleum industry to green-wash their activities while greenwashing it the entire way. They can probably charge more for their products at the same time by getting gullible politicians to subsidize their activities with OPM.

As I have said many times before, we need to vigorously oppose this type of activity, not promote it as you and many others do.
 
RegGuheert said:
GRA said:
Uh, Reg, sorry to interrupt your rant, but absolutely no one is claiming that SMR-produced H2 is a zero emission fuel.
No, what you and many others do is talk about "zero-emission vehicles" and pretend that this is a virtue in itself.
Sure, which they are. If you doubt this, go on a walk or bike ride as I often do, and stand behind a ZEV and then an ICE (especially a diesel pickup truck).

RegGuheert said:
That is a massive lie of omission. What I pointed out that you completely glossed over is that fossil fuels are used as the source and toxic petroleum products will be put into ships and sailed on the ocean where those chemicals can pollute the most water possible.
Reg, if I wanted to gloss over it I wouldn't have posted it in the first place. I post news articles related to H2 and Fuel cells here, regardless of whether or not I agree with the ideas contained therein. Sometimes I state my opinion of them, and sometimes I don't.

RegGuheert said:
I'm sorry, but this new technology is NOT progress. This is a way for the petroleum industry to green-wash their activities while greenwashing it the entire way. They can probably charge more for their products at the same time by getting gullible politicians to subsidize their activities with OPM.

As I have said many times before, we need to vigorously oppose this type of activity, not promote it as you and many others do.
Where did I promote this? I've said on many occasions that a transition to H2 only makes sense if the goal is to make it 100% renewable at some point in the not-too-distant future. That it won't be initially is obvious, just as most electricity isn't 100% renewable yet, but that is the goal for both. Otherwise it's not worth the attempt.
 
GRA said:
Reg, if I wanted to gloss over it I wouldn't have posted it in the first place. I post news articles related to H2 and Fuel cells here, regardless of whether or not I agree with the ideas contained therein. Sometimes I state my opinion of them, and sometimes I don't.
You come here and do the following:
- Promote H2 vehicles and technology
- Promote PHEV vehicles
- Point out the limitations of BEVs

One thing I don't see you do is:
- Point out the problems and limitations of H2 vehicles and technology.

When you post an article about a very negative development in the H2 arena, I don't recall a single incident when you have condemned what is going on, including this one.

Simply put, there is nothing balanced about your treatment of the H2 issue. It's pure promotion.
GRA said:
Where did I promote this? I've said on many occasions that a transition to H2 only makes sense if the goal is to make it 100% renewable at some point in the not-too-distant future. That it won't be initially is obvious, just as most electricity isn't 100% renewable yet, but that is the goal for both. Otherwise it's not worth the attempt.
The belief that a so-called "hydrogen economy" will eventually become a zero-emission economy is the highest form of naivete. You have to believe a lot of false things to come to that conclusion, not least of which is that the oil companies who are investing so heavily in converting their operations over to sell hydrogen instead of gasoline and diesel will simply pull out some day. The reality is that they intend to capture and hold the lions share of that market.

The *only* way to prevent that eventuality is to keep H2 where it is today: an also-ran.
 
Back
Top