Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

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As a matter of general info, via GCC:
DOE: 10 million metric tons of hydrogen produced annually in the US; 68% for petroleum processing
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/05/20180516-doeh2.html

. . . About 21% of the hydrogen is used in the production of fertilizer. Most of the hydrogen produced in the United States comes from steam methane reforming.

There are currently 1,600 miles of hydrogen pipeline in the United States and there are large hydrogen production facilities in almost every state.
There's a map showing production facilities by daily output.
 
Via GCC:
SoCalGas introduces STARS solar hydrogen generation system at California Air Resources Board Symposium
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/05/20181518-stars.html

. . . The project is a partnership between SoCalGas, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) and the STARS Corporation. The generation system uses sunlight to convert natural gas and water into hydrogen and capture the carbon dioxide (CO2) to prevent carbon emissions.

A separate SoCalGas research and development project is studying the production of carbon nanotubes (CNTs) from carbon captured during hydrogen production. (Earlier post.)

Developed at Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) (earlier post), the Solar Thermochemical Advanced Reactor System (STARS) produces hydrogen through a thermochemical process in which the sun provides thermal energy to break down natural gas and water into hydrogen and carbon dioxide in a steam methane reforming process.

The STARS technology is based on micro- and meso-channel processing technologies (MMPT) that have been demonstrated on a variety of different reactors and heat exchangers for intensifying processing applications. Using MMPT arrangements there are multiple applications under consideration for STARS, including the production of syngas, hydrogen, and methanol, using steam-methane reforming and dry reforming approaches.

Results from extensive testing show STARS can be configured to produce hydrogen and other chemicals without any carbon emissions reaching the atmosphere. These chemicals trap and use the carbon that would otherwise be emitted. The carbon then can be used to make chemicals that become resins and plastic materials.

STARS converts a record-setting 70% of solar energy into chemical energy. . . .

STARS Corporation hopes to have a commercial demonstration operating in one to two years.

This technology is undergoing field testing at San Diego State University’s Brawley campus where it runs on solar and renewable electricity. Currently the system produces about 25 kg of hydrogen per day if operated around the clock using a combination of solar energy and renewable gas or electricity. This is the equivalent of 25 gallons of gasoline or diesel fuel. Research suggests the system could produce 100 kg of hydrogen per day with a more advanced design. . . .
 
Via GCC:
DOE SBIR/STTR FY18 BES Phase 1 Release 1 awards include 15 for hydrogen and fuel cells
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/05/20180519-sbir.html

The US Department of Energy (DOE) has announced the 2018 Small Business Innovation Research and Small Business Technology Transfer (SBIR/STTR) Phase I Release 1 awards, including 15 projects focused on high density hydrogen storage, innovative ionomers (ion-containing polymers) in the catalyst layer, gas diffusion layers, and membranes for electrochemical production of hydrogen. These projects are awarded through the Office of Basic Energy Sciences (BES). Award winners include:

High Density Hydrogen Storage

  • NuMat Technologies: High-Density Hydrogen Storage in Space-Filling Polyhedral Sorbents. The proposed program will develop and demonstrate a new technology for effectively consolidating porous sorbent materials; thus, enabling the high-density storage of onboard hydrogen and bringing the US into the forefront of the global fuel-cell powered vehicle market.

    Nextgen Battery Technologies: High-Density Hydrogen Storage in Space-Filling Polyhedral Sorbents. The proposed program will develop and demonstrate a new technology for effectively consolidating porous sorbent materials; thus, enabling the high-density storage of onboard hydrogen and bringing the US into the forefront of the global fuel-cell powered vehicle market.

    E&G Associates, Inc.: Development of Novel Compaction Regimes for Hydrogen Storage Materials. Current technology for hydrogen storage requires high pressure systems which are too large and costly to be viable for transportation. This Phase I SBIR project’s objective is to develop a compact material based solution, which allows high volume hydrogen storage in a small footprint, making hydrogen powered vehicles more feasible. . . .

Membranes

  • Giner, Inc.: Innovative Bilayer Microporous Layer for PEM Fuel Cells. The broad commercialization of fuel cell vehicles requires further cost reduction of the system. One of the approaches is to enhance the fuel cell power density for a given system size, which requires unhindered mass transport at high current operations. The gas diffusion media is a critical component to address the water and mass transport issue. This proposed bilayer microporous layer-based gas diffusion media design with combined pore size gradient and hydrophilic/hydrophobic gradient would enable to achieve these goals.

    Xergy, Inc.: Novel membranes for Electrochemical Hydrogen Compression enabling increased pressure capability and higher pumping efficiency. As part of the infrastructure development for widespread hydrogen utilization, robust low-cost hydrogen compression is required. Xergy/RPI is developing membranes for hydrogen compression to high pressure to address this need. This adaptable membrane chemistry has utility in compression and occupancy sensors which will have a large impact on energy demand.

    Sustainable Innovations: Novel Sulfonated Block Copolymers for Efficient Electrochemical Hydrogen Compression. Sustainable Innovations Inc. (SI), and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) are teaming to evaluate new ionic polymer membranes developed at RPI in SI’s electrochemical hydrogen separation and compression systems with the commercial goal of reducing the cost of hydrogen for industrial and fueling customers. Gaia Energy Research Institute will provide techno-economic analysis of the new membrane manufacturing costs.
The article also lists the awardees in the other two areas.
 
Via GCC:
EDF and McPhy partner to develop carbon-free hydrogen in France and around the world; EDF invests €16M
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180606-edf.html

Founded in 2008, McPhy offers a full range of hydrogen solutions including electrolyzers, hydrogen refueling stations and storage facilities. McPhy covers the entire value chain from R&D through to engineering, manufacturing, production, operations and maintenance. . . .

EDF’s goals lie in the development of a carbon-free and competitive range of hydrogen solutions, primarily for industrial and mobility clients, by drawing on its industry partners and the momentum built up by specific regions. The Group has already been active on the R&D front for more than 15 years in hydrogen, including electrolyzers and vehicle refueling stations, at its EIFER research center in Karlsruhe. . . .

In France, McPhy is actively involved in rolling out hydrogen-based solutions. These include industrial projects, such as a 1 MW unit for GRTgaz in Fos-sur-Mer, and also mobility projects. Out of the 20 or so hydrogen stations in France, it has supplied equipment for 13. The company has also achieved commercial success on a number of fronts outside France. For example, it won a contract in China to deliver hydrogen production equipment for Jiantou Yanshan Wind Energy's 4 MW unit.

EDF will be able to offer its customers new services reducing their carbon footprint while enhancing their competitiveness. These skills in producing and marketing carbon-free hydrogen also dovetail perfectly with EDF Group's strategy in electromobility. EDF considers electrolytic hydrogen as a crucial means of reducing the carbon footprint of economic sectors (industry, mobility) when it is manufactured using carbon-free electricity, as it is the case with EDF’s low carbon mix combining nuclear power and renewable energy.
 
Via GCC:
Swansea study finds 30% of the UK’s natural gas could be replaced by hydrogen without major changes
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180611-swansea.html

30% of the natural gas fueling UK homes and businesses could be replaced by hydrogen without requiring any changes to the nation’s boilers and ovens, a study by Swansea University researchers has shown. Over time the move could cut UK carbon dioxide emissions by up to 18%. The open-access study is published in the RSC journal Sustainable Energy & Fuels.

The difference between the two percentages—30% hydrogen enrichment and a potential 18% drop in carbon emissions—arises from the fact that hydrogen-enrichment lowers the calorific content of the fuel, necessitating a higher volume of gas for a given energy output. . . .

Domestic gas usage accounts for 9% of UK emissions. In an effort to reduce annual carbon emissions, there is presently a concerted effort from researchers worldwide to offset the usage of natural gas. Enriching natural gas with hydrogen (HENG) is one option. Experiments have shown that modern-day gas appliances work safely and reliably with hydrogen-enriched natural gas as the fuel. It is already used in parts of Germany and the Netherlands. A £600-million (US$805-million) government-backed trial is taking place in the UK this year.

Natural gas naturally contains a small quantity of hydrogen, although current UK legislation restricts the allowed proportion to 0.1%. The question the Swansea team investigated was how far they could increase the percentage of hydrogen in natural gas, before it became unsuitable as a fuel, for example because the flames became unstable. . . .

  • Through consideration of the Wobbe Index, we discuss the relationship between molar hydrogen percentage and annual carbon dioxide output, as well as the predicted effect of hydrogen-enrichment on fuel costs. It is further shown that in addition to suppressing both blow-off and yellow-tipping, hydrogen-enrichment of natural gas does not significantly increase the risk of flash-back on ignition for realistic burner setups, while flash-back at extinction is avoided for circular port diameters of less than 3.5 mm unless the proportion of hydrogen exceeds 34.7 mol%. It is thus proposed that up to 30 mol% of the natural gas supply may be replaced in the UK with guaranteed safety and reliability for the domestic end-user, without any modification of the appliance infrastructure.

    —Jones et al. . . .
 
Via GCC:
Ballard, Audi sign 3.5-year extension to long-term program for fuel cell cars; extension supports Audi through vehicle launch
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180612-ballard.html

Ballard Power Systems signed a 3.5-year extension to its current Technology Solutions contract with Audi AG (earlier post), extending the HyMotion program to August 2022. The aggregate value of the contract extension is expected to be C$80-to-130 million (US$62-100 million). The program will support Audi through its small series production launch.

Ballard signed an initial 4-year contract with Volkswagen AG in March 2013, followed by a 2-year extension in February 2015, with the full 6-year contract term running to March 2019. Audi AG assumed leadership of the program in 2016.

The HyMotion program encompasses automotive fuel cell stack development as well as system design support activities. Ballard is focused on the design and manufacture of world-leading, next-generation fuel cell stacks for use in Audi’s demonstration car program. Ballard engineers are leading critical areas of fuel cell product design—including the membrane electrode assembly (MEA), plate and stack components—along with certain testing and integration work. . . .
 
Via GCC:
Linde submits LCFS pathway application for hydrogen from sodium chlorate production: 56.06 gCO2e/MJ
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180614-linde.html

Linde LLC submitted a Tier 2 application for the California Low-Carbon Fuel Standard (LCFS) for a Tier 2 pathway for hydrogen as a co-product from the commercial electrolytic production of sodium chlorate from a facility located in Québec, Canada.

The produced hydrogen is liquefied and transported via truck to fueling stations in California. . . .

The carbon intensity—including liquefaction, transportation and regasification—is calculated as 56.06 gCO2e/MJ. The LCFS currently has 14 certified pathways for hydrogen, with CIs ranging from 165.88 gCO2e/MJ (Linde Canada production of hydrogen from central reforming of natural gas), to 0 (hydrogen production via electrolysis using solar electricity) to -46.91 (landfill gas to on-site hydrogen production via cracking of methane).

Also GCC:
DOE seeking feedback on regulatory barriers to hydrogen infrastructure
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180614-doeh2.html

SQL errors, so can't quote it.
 
HFCV, RIP...

Nissan and Renault shelve fuel cell vehicle plan

Project with Daimler and Ford will now focus on electric vehicles


TOKYO -- Nissan Motor and Renault have decided to suspend a plan to commercialize a fuel cell vehicle that they were developing with Daimler and Ford Motor.

The project began in 2013. The automakers thought that by pooling their resources they could come up with an affordable, mass-production car.

Nissan, Renault, Daimler and Ford are to continue cooperating but shift their focus to electric cars, which appear to be on the cusp of going mainstream.

In the beginning, the European, Japanese and U.S. partners planned to develop standard components that would help all four reduce their development costs. They were determined to mass-produce a fuel cell vehicle in 2017.

That did not happen...

Meanwhile, Ford and Daimler on Wednesday announced they would end a separate fuel cell joint venture.

Renault owns more than 43% of Nissan, which has a 15% non-voting stake in Renault. Their group, which includes Mitsubishi Motors, has set a global target of selling 14 million vehicles in 2022. Of the total, 30% is expected to be electric or hybrid vehicles.

The three companies plan to develop a common electric vehicle platform and use it to make 12 models.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Nissan-and-Renault-shelve-fuel-cell-vehicle-plan
 
edatoakrun said:
HFCV, RIP...

Nissan and Renault shelve fuel cell vehicle plan

Project with Daimler and Ford will now focus on electric vehicles
<snip>
Interesting. GM/Honda just recently announced their continuing partnership for FCEVs*, and then there's Toyota/KIa/Hyundai, so we'll see if the abandonment of FCEV development spreads or stops there.

*GM/Honda also announced recently that they're also going to collaborate on battery development: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...06/07/gm-honda-battery-development/680560002/
 
Via GCC:
Shell and HTEC launch Canada’s first retail hydrogen vehicle refueling station
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180616-shell.html

. . . Canada’s first retail hydrogen refueling station . . . located at 8686 Granville Street in Vancouver. This is the first retail hydrogen vehicle refuelling station in Canada open to the public, and the first of three sites that Shell and HTEC plan to open in Vancouver.

The launch of the Vancouver station follows similar openings in the UK, California, and in Germany, where Shell is part of a joint venture with the ambition to open a network of up to 400 hydrogen sites by 2023. Shell is also assessing the potential of future projects in the United States, Switzerland, Austria, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, China and the Netherlands.

Critical investment in the station comes from LGM Financial Services, along with funding from both the Provincial and Federal governments. . . .
 
Via GCR:
South Korean government trims orders for Hyundai Nexo hydrogen-fuel cars
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ms-orders-for-hyundai-nexo-hydrogen-fuel-cars

Nine months after announcing its intention to buy 10,000 Hyundai Nexo hydrogen-fueled cars, the South Korean government has halved its order. That's according to Business Korea, which said Tuesday that a report published by the government earlier this month indicated that the government plans to purchase 5,000 Nexo vehicles over the next two years.

To keep the 378-mile range Nexos moving, the South Korean government has said that it plans to subsidize construction of 130 hydrogen fueling stations by 2020. About a dozen have been built so far.

The article speculates that strong consumer demand for the Nexo may have prompted the government to dial back its plans. About 1,000 Nexo vehicles were sold in Korea during the model's first week on sale, Business Korea said. The Nexo, a small crossover that emits only water from its tailpipe, is expected to go on sale in the U.S. by the end of this year. . . .
 
GRA said:
edatoakrun said:
HFCV, RIP...

Nissan and Renault shelve fuel cell vehicle plan

Project with Daimler and Ford will now focus on electric vehicles
<snip>
Interesting. GM/Honda just recently announced their continuing partnership for FCEVs*, and then there's Toyota/KIa/Hyundai, so we'll see if the abandonment of FCEV development spreads or stops there...
Hydrogen FCVs are dead, save for the few remaining on very expensive government-subsidised-life-support.

FCs that are able to utilize other fuels, both stationary and perhaps in BEVs, do have a future.

Nissan to develop vehicle using ethanol-based Solid Oxide Fuel-Cell technology by 2020

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22107&start=20
The problem with HFCVs from the start was that it was obvious the technology was going to succeed, as soon as the problem of developing safe, efficient, and competitively-priced Hydrogen infrastructure was solved.

And this vision was so attractive, people just didn't want to notice that that obstacle was almost certainly impossible to overcome.
 
edatoakrun said:
FCs that are able to utilize other fuels, both stationary and perhaps in BEVs, do have a future.
Nissan to develop vehicle using ethanol-based Solid Oxide Fuel-Cell technology by 2020
Meh
The energy cost to convert fossil fuel 'A' into the pet fossil fuel 'B' your preferred fuel cell uses are similar across the board. And while it is true that ethanol infrastructure is cheaper than H2, the much more basic problem is that fuel cell are no where near efficient enough to compete with a battery. And that is before we consider the cost, reliability and longevity problems of the fuel cell stack.


Fuel cell stacks in transport appeared promising on paper in the days when ICE engines ran at 18% efficiency, battery cell costs were $1000 a kWh, and the LEAF was the best offered at 80 miles range and 6 hours to recharge. You are stuck in 2010 and don't realize that long-lived, high performance, reliable and increasingly affordable 300+ mile, under 30 minute recharge EVs are on the road today and further dramatic improvements are around the corner.

Go test drive a Tesla. Then you will understand.
 
edatoakrun said:
GRA said:
<snip>
Interesting. GM/Honda just recently announced their continuing partnership for FCEVs*, and then there's Toyota/KIa/Hyundai, so we'll see if the abandonment of FCEV development spreads or stops there...
Hydrogen FCVs are dead, save for the few remaining on very expensive government-subsidised-life-support.

FCs that are able to utilize other fuels, both stationary and perhaps in BEVs, do have a future.

Nissan to develop vehicle using ethanol-based Solid Oxide Fuel-Cell technology by 2020

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22107&start=20
The problem with HFCVs from the start was that it was obvious the technology was going to succeed, as soon as the problem of developing safe, efficient, and competitively-priced Hydrogen infrastructure was solved.

And this vision was so attractive, people just didn't want to notice that that obstacle was almost certainly impossible to overcome.
Actually, everyone involved noticed that it was an obstacle, along with competitively priced fuel cells and sustainable H2 production, and lots of R&D has been put into those areas. Prices for the infrastructure have come down considerably owing to economies of scale and technical development, but as with the other two areas,* not enough yet. Whether it can come down enough is and always has been the question. Whether someone believes its worth finding out the answer is where the division lies.



*H2 electrolysis using excess renewables being a likely exception.
 
GRA said:
edatoakrun said:
And this vision was so attractive, people just didn't want to notice that that obstacle was almost certainly impossible to overcome.
Actually, everyone involved noticed that it was an obstacle, along with competitively priced fuel cells and sustainable H2 production, and lots of R&D has been put into those areas.
GRA, you quoted Ed's exact words and then responded as if he had said something different. Specifically, Ed did NOT say that people didn't notice that it was an obstacle. What he said was that "people just didn't want to notice that that obstacle was almost certainly impossible to overcome." That is a completely different statement.
 
RegGuheert said:
GRA said:
edatoakrun said:
And this vision was so attractive, people just didn't want to notice that that obstacle was almost certainly impossible to overcome.
Actually, everyone involved noticed that it was an obstacle, along with competitively priced fuel cells and sustainable H2 production, and lots of R&D has been put into those areas.
GRA, you quoted Ed's exact words and then responded as if he had said something different. Specifically, Ed did NOT say that people didn't notice that it was an obstacle. What he said was that "people just didn't want to notice that that obstacle was almost certainly impossible to overcome." That is a completely different statement.
He said that people were deliberately choosing to ignore the obvious obstacles, which wasn't and isn't the case. Government and industry have both been devoting a lot of money to the R&D necessary to resolve those issues over the years, just as they have with BEVs and other energy tech. Neither FCEVs or BEVs are yet where they need to be to replace fossil-fueled ICEs (BEVs are obviously closer than FCEVs, for some jobs) without continued government and industry support.
 
Via GCC:
Clariant Catalysts collaborates with Hydrogenious on Liquid Organic Hydrogen Carrier (LOHC) technology
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180618-lohc.html

. . . Hydrogen’s very low density, high flammability and extreme volatility present significant challenges to both storage and transportation. Conventional storage methods typically involve either physical compression (200–700 bar) or extreme cooling (–253°C) of hydrogen, both of which are energy intensive and can involve safety risks.

Hydrogenious Technologies has developed an innovative means of transporting hydrogen by chemically binding the molecules to Liquid Organic Hydrogen Carriers (LOHC). In the method, hydrogenation of the liquid organic hydrocarbon dibenzyltoluene via Clariant’s EleMax H catalyst allows hydrogen to be “stored”, while its dehydrogenation with EleMax D “releases” hydrogen on demand.

The highly active Clariant catalysts are designed to offer high selectivity for loading and unbinding hydrogen in order to optimize the life-cycle and efficiency of the LOHC.

Non-explosive, non-toxic and of low flammability, the diesel-like hydrogen-bound compound is not classified a hazardous good, and remains in a useable and convenient liquid state through a broad temperature range of -39°C to 390°C at ambient pressure.

These factors allow considerably easier installation at industrial locations as well as commercial and public fueling sites, even in close range of or within residential areas. This furthermore allows for the handling flexibility required to enable a wide spread roll-out of hydrogen production from renewable power sources (Power-to-Gas).

First commercial scale units in operation—for example at United Hydrogen Group (Tennessee)—confirm the expected technical and economic attractiveness. Clariant will continue to further broaden the applicability and efficiency of this technology offered by Hydrogenious via catalyst research and expertise. . . .
Not sure how similar this is to what AHEAD's planning for shipping H2 from Brunei*. As always, price due to energy consumed during the transitions (along with the cost of the catalysts) will determine its commercial viability, but the potential cost, handling and safety advantages for storage and transport seem large. Of course, this is a P.R. release by a company pimping their product, so you should apply whatever B.S. correction factor you think appropriate, until we see some hard, independent numbers.


*http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14744&hilit=hydrogen+australia&start=3990#p525510
 
RegGuheert said:
GRA said:
He said that people were deliberately choosing to ignore the obvious obstacles,,,,
No, he didn't. Quit misrepresenting what others say.
Ed wrote:
And this vision was so attractive, people just didn't want to notice that that obstacle was almost certainly impossible to overcome.
How does "didn't want to notice" mean anything other than deliberately ignoring? "Didn't want to" is a choice - example: When people just don't want to notice the homeless, they pretend not to see them and ignore their presence, but of course they do see them and know they're there, they just don't acknowledge their existence.
 
GRA said:
RegGuheert said:
GRA said:
He said that people were deliberately choosing to ignore the obvious obstacles,,,,
No, he didn't. Quit misrepresenting what others say.
Ed wrote:
And this vision was so attractive, people just didn't want to notice that that obstacle was almost certainly impossible to overcome.
How does "didn't want to notice" mean anything other than deliberately ignoring? "Didn't want to" is a choice - example: When people just don't want to notice the homeless, they pretend not to see them and ignore their presence, but of course they do see them and know they're there, they just don't acknowledge their existence.

Guy, it's not that people are ignoring the obstacle. It's that they are ignoring the fact that said obstacle is almost certainly impossible to overcome
 
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