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TonyWilliams
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:54 am

Hydrogen busses are only 1.4 times than diesel:

http://evobsession.com/report-hydrogen- ... sel-buses/

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:14 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:Hydrogen busses are only 1.4 times than diesel:

http://evobsession.com/report-hydrogen- ... sel-buses/

See my immediately preceding post for the details.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
Posts: 1714
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:23 am

lorenfb wrote:You might want to check the EV U.S. numbers for 2015, i.e. it's YTD 89K - est. 109K, versus 2014 actual
of 123K. Doesn't look too good for a real growth market presently, does it? How "full is your glass" now?

http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/



Ah yes, and now it is 2016. Best go look again, eh?

2014 was 122,438 plug in cars total.

2015 was less, at 116,009. Lower gas prices, some rebates ended.

2016 is up to 133,854 to date, with December still to go.



Oh, and past the 1% of new car sales as well.

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/12/03/us ... car-sales/
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1500
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:19 pm

Anyone following the EV market new 2015 was going to be rough. News of the new Volt was out, but the car was not yet available. News of the Bolt had broken, but the only BEVs available offered around 80 miles of range. Many of the cars (such as the Leaf) were growing long in the tooth (the Leaf still is, but the 30kWh battery helped stem the decline). In the upper price range, the Model X was around the corner, and I'm sure that affected Model S production and sales.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

smkettner
Posts: 6977
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Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:55 pm

I do find it interesting the Nikola 1 has decided to go hydrogen along with a network of hydrogen stations.
Unfortunately I think they are doomed for the decision. Time will tell.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:11 pm

Via GCC:
ITM Power to launch 100 MW electrolyzer plant designs at Hannover Messe 2017
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/12 ... power.html

ITM Power will showcase a series of large scale electrolyzer configurations up to 100MW in size at Hannover Messe 2017 (24 - 28 April). This is in response to utility and oil and gas industry demand for larger scale industrial installations.

ITM Power has sold a number of MW-scale plants over the last year and is now responding to enquiries for much larger plant for bus and heavy goods vehicle refueling stations in the to 10MW range and, increasingly, industrial applications ranging from power-to-gas, refineries and steel-making in the 10MW to 100MW range. . . .

Refinery hydrogen. Refineries currently use hydrogen to improve the quality of fractional distillation products and most of this hydrogen is produced from steam-reforming. About 17% of the total CO2 emissions from the European refinery sector can be attributed to hydrogen production. Emissions from steam reforming natural gas are about 10 tonnes of CO2 per tonne of hydrogen produced, nearly 50% of direct refinery CO2 emissions.

The EU Fuel Quality Directive states that fuels in Europe must reduce their carbon emissions by 6% by 2020. Furthermore, The EU Emissions Trading System threshold, will be reduced by 1.74% (based on the 2010 cap) annually. UKPIA has calculated that the total additional costs for UK refineries are up to £75 million/year (US$95 million/year) using an allowance cost of £10.50/t CO2 (US$13.27/t CO2).

If using green hydrogen can cut 50% of direct CO2 emissions, this represents a saving of £37 million/year (US$46.8 million/year) for UK refineries and small emitters (<25 ktCO2e a year) could be allowed to opt out entirely. Refineries need a cost-effective solution that reduces carbon emissions, allowing them to comply with stringent legislation and avoid fines, while maintaining output. . . .

Power-to-gas energy storage. The recent Winter Package of Directive proposals from the EC includes energy storage involving the conversion of electricity to another energy carrier, such as hydrogen. Ongoing work by CEN/CENELEC is investigating hydrogen/methane blends and establishing admissible concentration levels for hydrogen in natural gas grids across Europe. These developments will enable Europe-wide deployment of power-to-gas plant for injecting hydrogen into the gas grid while offering balancing services to the electricity grid.

Steel making. Iron ore requires chemical reduction before being used to produce steel; this is currently achieved through the use of carbon, in the form of coal or coke. When oxidized, this leads to emissions of about 2.2 tonnes of CO2 for each tonne of liquid steel produced, equivalent to 5% of the world’s anthropogenic CO2 emissions.

The substitution of hydrogen for carbon has the potential to significantly reduce CO2 emissions, because hydrogen is an excellent reducing agent and produces only water as a by-product. Furthermore, electrolytic oxygen may be injected into furnaces, including electric arc furnaces, to remove impurities, reduce NOx emissions, reduce fuel consumption, and improve flame stability and rates of heat transfer.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7086
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:53 pm

Via GCC:
Toshiba supplying H2-based energy supply system to Tohoku Electric Power; evaluating H2 for overcoming fluctuations from renewables
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/12 ... shiba.html

Toshiba Corporation will support a two-year study of power management to be done by Tohoku Electric Power Co., through its H2One, hydrogen based autonomous energy supply system. . . .

The H2One system uses renewable energy to produce hydrogen via electrolysis, as well as for charging a battery-based energy storage system. Hydrogen is stored in a tank, then fed to a fuel cell unit to produce electricity (and hot water) when required. . . .

This should provide comparative data for the all-battery storage noted upthread, also for Tohoku: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14744&p=428206&hilit=toshiba#p428206
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7086
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:43 pm

Via GCC:
Proton OnSite to supply 13 MW-scale electrolyzers to provide hydrogen for fuel cell bus fueling in China
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/12 ... nsite.html

Proton OnSite signed a contract with Guangdong Synergy Hydrogen Power Technology Co., Ltd. to provide megawatt-scale Proton Exchange Membrane (PEM) electrolyzers for the deployment of fuel cell-powered buses in the cities of Foshan and Yunfu, China.

Three of the megawatt systems will ship this summer, and an additional ten systems are planned to ship over the next 18 months, with the opportunity for significant recurring systems to follow. . . .

Proton’s megawatt-scale M Series electrolyzers (M200 and M400) can accept one and two megawatts (MWs) of power and produce up to 400 Nm3/hr, 864 kg hydrogen per 24 hours (M400). The product was developed with rapid, dynamic response in mind, so that it can adjust to the intermittent nature of renewable energy input. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7086
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:48 pm

Via GCC:
NRL completes first flight of UAV with custom hydrogen fuel cell with metal bipolar plates; leveraging automotive technology
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/12 ... 8-nrl.html

Researchers from the US Naval Research Laboratory’s (NRL) chemistry and tactical electronic warfare divisions recently completed the first flight of the Ion Tiger unmanned air vehicle with a new hydrogen-powered fuel cell built in-house.

The NRL team designed and built a custom fuel cell system capable of up to 5,000 watts, using formed metal-foil bipolar plates, which saved space and weight. Ion Tiger flew with the new cell in September.

    The decision to move to metal bipolar plates allowed us to leverage a lot of know how from the automotive industry’s large investment in hydrogen fuel cells. Using the plates also enabled enhanced storage capabilities and weight savings that are critical for naval unmanned system applications.

    —Dr. Benjamin Gould, NRL’s chief scientist on the project. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5429
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:40 am

It appears that Japan will be upgrading their cars to run on brown coal: Victoria's plans for hydrogen exports to Japan are a way of making brown coal look green:
The Guardian wrote:The proposed plant, which would be run by Kawasaki Heavy Industries as part of their Kawasaki Hydrogen Road project, would produce liquid hydrogen that would then be exported to Japan to be used in hydrogen-powered vehicles.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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